First time Laminating boards to make thicker stock

[tjbnwi]

Looking at the picture something was very wrong with your set up or you ran them all flat on the table.

Tom

 

[Green Mojo]

The setup was good for my test pieces (short pieces) and I definitely know how to run them through the router table. I have used that joint for boxes with no problem many times.  On these posts, the middle was good, but the ends were off and you couldn't close them so you are seeing the ends in that photo. Oh well... I would definitely use laminated posts if I had to do it again.

 

[tjbnwi]

Something is not right. Nothing lines up as it should looking at the photo.

Tall columns are very doable. Take a look at this thread at CT. Spencer had never done a lock miter before.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/production-minded-columns-281953/

Tom

 

[bdiemer]

I know I'm late on this but I noticed you said it is curly birch. I never seen curly birch but I do know if it was sold as "Curly", there's a good chance it's quarter sawn or riff sawn. That would mean the boards are very stable (if dry) and you can arrange the grains as you wish , sometimes getting an almost seamless glue up.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=41218]Green Mojo[/member]

That photo of the lock mitre looks very odd. I agree that setting up the router table is not easy.

If it helps here is a link to my video about it:


Peter

 

[tjbnwi]

Set up the table first time--every time.

This jig is all you need;
http://www.infinitytools.com/lock-miter-master-jigs

Tom

 

[sofa_king_rad]

I went back to buy some more for the side rails and cross boards. Turns out they sold it to me last time at the reg birch price which was about $3 less per board foot!!

So I picked up some natura and red birch. They had a couple good 8/4 natural birch that I got also. I'm curious if some think that laminating 2 4/4 boards properly creates a more stable 8/4 board or if using 8/4 cut board is better?

The 8/4 was cheaper per BF than the 4/4, is that the norm for surfaced lumber?

I did pick up one more price of fury birch to try to do something later with natural finish, too bad I already cut up lots of the other boards j had since I got at such a great price!

 

[sofa_king_rad]

Bump

Which is more stable an 8/4 board or two 4/4 boards laminating together properly?

 

[ear3]

Are you counting the multiplier on the 8/4?  Normally the board foot price gets multiplied by the thickness, with 4/4 = 1.  So 6/4 = 1.5; 8/4 = 2, etc.

I went back to buy some more for the side rails and cross boards. Turns out they sold it to me last time at the reg birch price which was about $3 less per board foot!!

So I picked up some natura and red birch. They had a couple good 8/4 natural birch that I got also. I'm curious if some think that laminating 2 4/4 boards properly creates a more stable 8/4 board or if using 8/4 cut board is better?

The 8/4 was cheaper per BF than the 4/4, is that the norm for surfaced lumber?

I did pick up one more price of fury birch to try to do something later with natural finish, too bad I already cut up lots of the other boards j had since I got at such a great price!

 

[ear3]

Someone who's more knowledgeable about the science of wood will have to weigh in, but in my opinion they would be the same.  There's certainly no danger of the lamination coming unglued, since the face to face bond is the strongest there is.  The only variable might be slightly different rates of expansion/contraction for the laminated pieces (and by slight, I mean miniscule), but this can be eliminated if you use pieces from the same board/flitch. 

Bump

Which is more stable an 8/4 board or two 4/4 boards laminating together properly?

 

[bdiemer]

If done properly, laminated boards are more stable and less likely to bow, cup and bend. Think of it like plywood where the opposing grain directions counter each boards ( or layers) tendency to move. That board you're showing in your photo has a figure that is absolutely stunning. Use it where it will be shown off, perhaps a table top or drawer fronts. If it's 8/4 you can resaw it and make a bookmatch. Unless you're a master I would avoid stain on that wood. If you want to pop that grain, a very diluted water soluble dye will work. Test it on your cutoffs. Congrats on getting the curly at flat price.

 

[Cheese]

Bump

Which is more stable an 8/4 board or two 4/4 boards laminating together properly?

As [member=30471]bdiemer[/member] explained, and Edward so cleverly illustrated earlier in this thread (thanks Edward...that'll be remembered for years, it's a classic).  [cool]

If you purchase an 8/4 board the end grain will probably look like (    or    ).
However, if you purchase 2 each of the 4/4 boards to laminate together, you will then have the option of laminating them so that the end grain appears as either ( + )    or    ) + (. 

Either the ( + )    or    ) + (  is more stable than a single 2" piece that looks like this (. 

Thus the 2" laminated board will have a tendency to cup less because the cupping forces are oriented opposite to each other and working against each other to maintain the flatness.

 

[sofa_king_rad]

This was sort of my hunch.

So, when boards are secured at each end, do they tend to 'change' less over time?

For example, the bed posts are connected to each other via cross posts around 1/4 of the way down and up the post, however the ends are 'free'. Sorry if there is proper nomenclature that I'm not using. So, in my mind, the boards that not secured to something else at the end would be more likely to change.

Where as the interror boards that are secured to another board at each end, like the cross boards being connected to the post via a floating or regular tenon, plus other boards and connection going on between it and the other cross board, may be less 'able' to change as much.

Does that make sense? Am I right or wrong?

 

[nclemmons]

Sofa-king -

In general, you won't notice much deflection if your bed posts are of a size larger than 2x2 and your head and foot panels are 'captured' in a dado in the sides of the posts.  The combined unit will keep things from bowing.

To help with nomenclature, BTW, here are a few terms that might help you in furniture and cabinet construction:

- rail - a horizontal piece across and on the outside of a panel.
- stile - a vertical piece as in your drawing down the middle of the panel. 
        So a cabinet door for example, will typically have two rails and two stiles and a captured panel.
- dado - a routed groove that captures both sides in a piece.  Also called a groove.  Typically 1/4 to maybe 3/4 wide.
- rabbet - a dado at the edge, so it's open on two sides.  Often used for attaching a cabinet back that is attached after a piece is assembled.  Typically not as strong as a dado joint.
- panel - the floating piece, in your case plywood or MDF
- mortise - a hole in a piece of wood, as made by the Domino or a mortising machine.  A short dado if you will.
- tenon - the domino is a floating tenon, but many beds are made with sawn tenons that do not float.

I was fortunate many years ago to find a retired cabinet maker at the lumber yard and he drew out all the details I needed to build my own kitchen cabinets on scraps of cardboard.  A tablesaw and router and his weekly counsel and I was in business!  You might find someone similar in your area.

Which leads to this - where are you located?  I only ask because the questions you are asking might be better answered by demonstration and there might be someone on FOG in your area willing to walk you through the options.  Perhaps add a location to your profile.I'm in Chicago area if you happen to be around here -

Good luck and keep asking!

neil