First Touch Dewalt Track Saw

Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
502
I saw my first Dewalt Track Saw at the local Woodcraft store yesterday.  They have just received them and some accessories in the past couple of days.

Some thoughts after having a chance to handle it and see it up close....

It appears that it is made in the Chek Republic and not made in America as many Dewalt customers might assume according to the salesperson.
So, to me the Festool being made in Germany seems to have an advantage to me potentially in fit, finish and overall quality.

The straight line plunge is a big selling feature presented by Dewalt according to the Salesperson, but neither he nor I saw any significant advantage or dis advantage to that design vs the Festool plunge design.  It is just a different way to do the same function it seems.

Because of the way the blade cover is square shaped the saw appears larger than the TS55 and it appears that out of the box dust collection might be a little better.  But access to changing the blade may be a little more cumbersome. The blade variety does not appear to match the offerings of Festool at this time although the pricing is in the same ballpark.  The blade hole also appears to be about 5/8" or so and the blades will not interchange with the Festool blades at all.  Festool has a much larger hole in the blade.

The rail seems about as wide as the Festool with one raised track down the center.  You can cut on either edge of the fence without changing any saw settings.  This could be a slight advantage if the Dewalt blades are of different widths as the Festool ones are because you could use one edge for one with of blade and the other edge for another width of blade. You will have to have your own method to keep track of which edge is which though.

The question I had was about the joining of the tracks to make a longer track.  Since there is only one track ridge there is only one place to join the tracks and it is in the center of the track.  I don't know if this will be as sturdy and stable as the double joint offered by the Festool rails.  From my design and engineering background I think the advantage goes to Festool in this case.  The single track joiner is $20 so the cost of joining tracks is pretty much a wash.

The clamps from Dewalt are similar in cost but I am not sure the options to use them with the track are as good since there is only one groove in the Dewalt track.  Seems to me that the Festool tracks are more flexible in the options for clamping work. I only saw one size of track for the Dewalt so I am not sure what else they offer track size wise.  The T square and Angle guides for The Dewalt are about $30 and I think $40 so they cost less than the Festools.

From the way the saw was displayed I didn't get any feeling that it was part of a "system" as you do with the Festool display even though the saw clearly has a dust collection port and there were some accessories on a wall pegboard a couple steps away.  Perhaps the most interesting thing was the work table that the saw was displayed on.  I think it was about 18-20" by 50-60" and had a hardboard top.  It also had a plug attachment and 2 or 3 power outlets built into the center of the table edge.  Seemed like these might get cut into if you are not careful though with your blade depth settings.  Dewalt may have made this table but I cannot say that for sure.  I think the price was $150 which was not bad for what it was....but you are not going to be cutting 4x8 sheets of anything unless you have about 3 of these tables....

Interesting in that with the Dewalt priced at $499 and the other costs pretty much a wash with Festools pricing the salesperson seemed to think that the Festool was still the better buy and didn't seem to think they would sell more than a couple of the Dewalts.  I am also not sure how the Dewalt warranty compares to the Festool warranty.  Personally, I'll stick with the Festool, but I have never been a big Dewalt fan...

Best,
Todd
 
Some Festool products I own have labels indicating manufacture in Czech Republic.  So does my Stihl leafblower.  Some excellent high end machine tools are manufactured there as well.

Dave R.
 
I thought I read someplace that all the Festools were made in Germany and the Systainers were made in the Czech Republic....  Maybe that is not as big  deal as the salesperson thought then...are all the Dewalt tools made in the US?  That statement sort of surprised me....

Best,
Todd
 
"So, to me the Festool being made in Germany seems to have an advantage to me potentially in fit, finish and overall quality".

Why does "made in Germany" give anything a potential advantage?

It does not matter where the tools are made. I don't care if it was made in China. It is the company that dictates the specs and determines if the tools are made well enough to sell.

I am so tired of hearing location made as a basis for something being good. My table saw was made in China, some of the Steel City saws are made in China and they absolutely rock.

I have had stuff made in America that falls apart. Just becasue it is made in Germany does not mean something is made well. I use the tool and then determine if it is any good.

I think in a year or two the DeWalts will be outselling the Festool track saws by a large margin. The DeWalts will drop in price , the Festool's won't. I still have seen no one on any of the job sites I have been visiting with one Festool, I have already seen the DeWalt track saw twice. And I have only recently been going to job sites again.

Actually both guys using the saw only heard of Festool after they purchased the DeWalt or while taking a look at the DeWalt before purchase. Whether made in America or not the DeWalts are perceived to be by the local contractors around here. One guy mentioned being able to turn the saw around on the track as a basis for buying the DeWalt after looking at both the Festool and DeWalt.
 
Notorious T.O.D. said:
I thought I read someplace that all the Festools were made in Germany and the Systainers were made in the Czech Republic....  Maybe that is not as big  deal as the salesperson thought then...are all the Dewalt tools made in the US?  That statement sort of surprised me....

Best,
Todd

Todd,

IIRC, the only Festool tool made outside of Germany is the LS 120 sander (Czech Republic). The sandpaper is also from the Czech Republic.

  Bob
 
Correction 8Jan2009:  The tool label on the Systainer my LS 130 came reads "Made in Czech Republic, and so do some of my sanding supplies.  I also think some of my F-style clamps packaging indicated manufacture in Czech Republic.  The tag on my LS 130 reads "Made in Germany."

As Nick stated, the most important factor is training and quality control by the brand owner (Festool), not where the product is made.  There are plenty of aerospace products and components being made in China and India and Brazil.   

Dave R.
 
I was still wondering if the saw has the motor protection like the Festool. You know like when you overheat it by using a dull blade, and it goes in a limp mode until it cools down. If it doesn't I see Festool as having the greatest advantage of all.
 
Notorious T.O.D. said:
...The question I had was about the joining of the tracks to make a longer track.  Since there is only one track ridge there is only one place to join the tracks and it is in the center of the track.  I don't know if this will be as sturdy and stable as the double joint offered by the Festool rails.  From my design and engineering background I think the advantage goes to Festool in this case.  The single track joiner is $20 so the cost of joining tracks is pretty much a wash....

The older model of the Festool guide rail had one rib.  The design was changed several years ago to add a second rib.  The newer guide rails include "/2" in the model number.
 
Notorious T.O.D. said:
I thought I read someplace that all the Festools were made in Germany and the Systainers were made in the Czech Republic....  Maybe that is not as big  deal as the salesperson thought then...are all the Dewalt tools made in the US?  That statement sort of surprised me....

Best,
Todd

Todd,

Looks like you have been Czech mated!  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Neill
 
Robert Robinson said:
I was still wondering if the saw has the motor protection like the Festool. You know like when you overheat it by using a dull blade, and it goes in a limp mode until it cools down. If it doesn't I see Festool as having the greatest advantage of all.

Looking briefly at the saws features and user manual it does not appear to have such electronics. It also says that the saw is for cutting wood only and it seems they are only offering 2 blades at the moment.  Cutting blade diameter is 165mm which is 15mm larger than the TS55 but the saw also weighs 12 ibs so it is about 2 lbs heavier than the Festool TS55.  Arbor is 20mm for the blades and the blade they had at the shop was $60, and must have been a fine cut blade.

Best,
Todd
 
I discussed the subject of Festool power tools allegedly being made in the Czech Republic back in November 2008 under the heading Festools made in Czech Republic?

I reckoned that all the power tools (including the LS130) were made in Germany - it was the Systainers that held them that were sometimes made in the Czech Republic.

See, for example, the label on my own LS130:

normal_LS130_Label.jpg


Has anyone got a photo of a Festool power tool (not its Systainer) with a "Made in the Czech Republic" on it?

Forrest
 
My LS 130 does not say where it is made at all.

Maybe a hint it is not made in Germany?

Bob sells them so I have to believe it.
 
Interesting that the manual specifically says that the saw should not be used for cutting corian....and is for wood cutting only.  Doesn't appear that they want you cutting plastic laminates with the existing blade setups either.

Best,
Todd
 
nickao said:
My LS 130 does not say where it is made at all.

Maybe a hint it is not made in Germany?

Bob sells them so I have to believe it.

The subject came up in last month's discussion about Festool's sister brand, Protool, both owned by TTS:

Forrest Anderson said:
Festool, Protool and Tanos are part of the German TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co KG.

See the Australian Protool site for the following background:

TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG, is the parent company of 3 brands: Festool, PROTOOL and Tanos. With headquarters in Germany, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG has over 1,800 employees in over 20 countries worldwide. Although all three brands, Festool, PROTOOL and Tanos all use the TTS Tooltechnic Systems infrastructure, each represent independent companies with their own management structures and strategies.

Festool tools are designed and manufactured in Germany; partner brand PROTOOL in the Czech Republic and Germany. The TANOS brand, also based in Germany, is responsible for complementary products such as Systainer storage systems.

Forrest

 
I'm wondering if DeWalt will come out with more accessories like different size rail?    And what about a rail with holes?  like the Festool for the hole drilling kit?
What about a guide attachment for routers?
 
mastercabman said:
I'm wondering if DeWalt will come out with more accessories like different size rail?    And what about a rail with holes?  like the Festool for the hole drilling kit?
What about a guide attachment for routers?
Don't know about the rail with holes, but DeWalt offer the...

DWS5031
TrackSaw Router Attachment 
Features: Allows most routers to be used with TrackSaw tracks. Includes adapters for use with DEWALT and PORTER-CABLE routers. Fits all DEWALT & PORTER-CABLE Routers

...and the...

DWS5020 - 46" Track
DWS5022 - 59" Track
DWS5023 - 102" Track

You can also get two of these tracks as part of a package deal:

Corded TrackSaw with 59" Track (DWS520SK)
Corded TrackSaw with 102" Track (DWS520LK)
Corded TrackSaw with 102" & 59" Track (DWS520CK)

Seehttp://www.dewalt.com/us/tracksaw/products/index.html for more details.

Forrest

 
Forrest Anderson said:
nickao said:
My LS 130 does not say where it is made at all.

Maybe a hint it is not made in Germany?

Bob sells them so I have to believe it.

The subject came up in last month's discussion about Festool's sister brand, Protool, both owned by TTS:

Forrest Anderson said:
Festool, Protool and Tanos are part of the German TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co KG.

See the Australian Protool site for the following background:

TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG, is the parent company of 3 brands: Festool, PROTOOL and Tanos. With headquarters in Germany, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG has over 1,800 employees in over 20 countries worldwide. Although all three brands, Festool, PROTOOL and Tanos all use the TTS Tooltechnic Systems infrastructure, each represent independent companies with their own management structures and strategies.

Festool tools are designed and manufactured in Germany; partner brand PROTOOL in the Czech Republic and Germany. The TANOS brand, also based in Germany, is responsible for complementary products such as Systainer storage systems.

Forrest

Forrest,

It is confusing, but I am still going to say that the LS 120 is made in the Czech Reublic, as are their LS 120 systainers. Perhaps, some were made in Germany, but not many.

Bob
 
Nick, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you've come across products made in the US that were not well made. It would be more surprising to me to find issues with German made products. This is based on my experience and reading.
 
erikfsn said:
Nick, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you've come across products made in the US that were not well made. It would be more surprising to me to find issues with German made products. This is based on my experience and reading.

In my experience, to create a cheap product in Germany is counter productive, since the base costs (e.g. labour, German labour law etc) are higher. Festool isn't a mass market product, and sell by quality vs quantity, this is their customer value proposition.

Sure they could make it all in China, and invest in the infrastructure and quality control (e.g. may well include ex-pat managment team etc), however this would take a while to pay for itself given quantity, the savings made over the long term would come at the cost of the customer perceived benefits of the products being made in Germany.

In short, all things being considered, I doubt when you combine relocation costs, and customer perception, the figures stack up that favourably. Eastern europe would make more sense, hey thats where the audi quattro drive chains are made, and mine gets more use than my Festools, problem free ;D
 
Bob Marino said:
It is confusing, but I am still going to say that the LS 120 is made in the Czech Reublic, as are their LS 120 systainers. Perhaps, some were made in Germany, but not many.

Thanks for the input Bob. That's the second time you've referred to the LS120. Did you mean the LS130?

Given...

a. The aforementioned Protool statement

b. The fact that Festool USA give the following FAQ in their Support Knowledgebase

    Q.  Where are Festool tools made?
    A.  Festool tools are manufactured to the highest standards in our state-of-the-art and award-winning production facility in Neidlingen, Germany.
          Neidlingen is in the south west of Germany, close to Stuttgart.

c.  That my own LS130 is clearly marked that it was made in Germany

d.  That no-one has yet shown me a photo of an LS130 where the tool is marked "Made in the Czech Republic"

...I think that I'll stick to my theory that the LS130 is made in Germany, until I see some convincing evidence to the contrary!

Forrest

 
Back
Top