Getting Rough Cuts TS 75 in CMS.

[sancho57]

Hi guys,

I been using my TS 75 in my CMS. I am using the CS 50 fence and a Panther blade.  I just can't seem to get the quality of cuts I can with my TS 55 on a rail.

Im wondering if its the fence (which I checked and it seems ok) or maybe the toe in. The toe in is about the only thing I haven't done yet. Anyway here is a photo of the type of cuts Im getting. One is a lot worse then I normally get, the other is about average.

 

[ear3]

That is bad.  I don't really have anything useful to add, since I don't have the CMS, but just a question for general troubleshooting purposes -- do you normally get good cuts with the panther blade when using the TS75 on the rail.  My experience with that blade on the 75 has been not great cuts, though I assumed that this was just the sacrifice one makes when ripping very thick hardwood, and that you can clean the edge with a finer tooth blade after the initial rip.

 

[windmill man]

Its looks like toe in of the fence or have you checked if the blade nut is tight and the blade is sat on the saw flange properly

 

[sancho57]

Yes the blade nut is tight. I checked the toe in of the fence it seems to be ok.

Do you think it could be the toe in of the saw?

 

[sancho57]

That is bad.  I don't really have anything useful to add, since I don't have the CMS, but just a question for general troubleshooting purposes -- do you normally get good cuts with the panther blade when using the TS75 on the rail.  My experience with that blade on the 75 has been not great cuts, though I assumed that this was just the sacrifice one makes when ripping very thick hardwood, and that you can clean the edge with a finer tooth blade after the initial rip.

I haven't used my 75 out of the CMS. I got it because I figured that I would have it if there was something I couldn't use my 55 on. I pretty much use my 55 for everything so far.

 

[Svar]

Looks like blade runout to me. Measure it.

 

[Kev]

Where is you fence relative to the blade? .. and is this only happening with the rip blade?

All I've done is throw my TS75 into the module and turned the thing on and I get perfect cuts. So unfortunately (fortunately for me) I've had nothing to tune and don't know what your issue could be.

 

[bryan1982]

It could have something to do with the way you are pushing it through the saw and the riving knife
If the knife is bent a little and as your pushing the timber through you stop to adjust your hand and the timber stops moving through the blade this can happen.

Is it happening at the start or end of the cut?

Cheers

Bryan

 

[sancho57]

It seems to be continuous though the cut.

 

[sancho57]

Where is you fence relative to the blade? .. and is this only happening with the rip blade?

All I've done is throw my TS75 into the module and turned the thing on and I get perfect cuts. So unfortunately (fortunately for me) I've had nothing to tune and don't know what your issue could be.

Kev,

I don't know what you mean where is the fence relative to the blade? I had the problem with the universal blade but it wasn't as bad due to the less aggressive teeth.

I think tomorrow I'll but the fence that comes with the saw on and see if that changes anything. At least,I'll know if it's the fence or the saw. If it's the saw then I'll go and adj the toe in.
I just finished a project and got time to fool with this until I do the next one.

 

[SMJoinery]

Can you try putting a board through the saw free hand without the fence and see if it's the same?
I cut some 69mm oak beam today on the TS75CMS with Panther blade and you can see the saw blade marks but they were feint, one pass on the jointer and there gone.

 

[tjbnwi]

Seeing as I'm in the United States, these are (not) pictures of how rips look coming off the CMS with[out] the TS-75 module in it. Also, it does[n't] have the CS-50 fence on it.  [laughing]

I believe "jobby" has a toe issue with the TS.

Tom

 

[sancho57]

Thanks Tom, I'm going to make some cuts today using the fence locking sequence you told me about.  Which is, lock the micro adj first them the knob then the lever. Maybe me not locking the micro adj first is throwing the fence out of alignment.

If that doesn't do it then I'm going to adj the toe in of the saw. Those are the only 2 things I haven't tried yet.

 

[Kev]

Kev,

I don't know what you mean where is the fence relative to the blade? I had the problem with the universal blade but it wasn't as bad due to the less aggressive teeth.

I think tomorrow I'll but the fence that comes with the saw on and see if that changes anything. At least,I'll know if it's the fence or the saw. If it's the saw then I'll go and adj the toe in.
I just finished a project and got time to fool with this until I do the next one.

I'm assuming you're using the rip fence. I like to bring it back so it's behind the riving knife (pretty much at the limit of the retaining bolt). This works for me.

[attachimg=1]

 

[sancho57]

I use a shorter fence but that's where I set it in the euro style.

Thanks pal I spent some time fooling with it today.  Talking to Tom he tightens this fence by, first tightening the micro adj,mthere the v groove knob and finally the lever for the back fence I call the hook.

So I checked the toe in of the fence everything was fine. But a while ago I fooled with the hook adj, so I took the fence apart and adj it got it sorted working smooth.

Ran se stock thigh a tad better but still unacceptable even with a panther blade. So I tried it with the angle stop that came with it as a fence , nope same thing. Put a longer extrusion on it like a American style fence , a little better. Fooled with the adj of the euro style fence moved it up and back in proportion to the rear of the blade. Got some improvement but not where I want it.

So I took the saw out f the module and checked to toe in. I felt it needed some adj. so I adj it.
I ran it on a guide rail, and it came out acceptable for using a panther blade. I reassembled the module and tried it. Came out better. Still got saw marks but not as bad as the ones I showed originally.  But I thought hey it's a panther blade

so I'm happy for now the way things turned out.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[delevic]

Is your CMS panel ideally flat ? I asked that because my panel is 1mm convex on the left side of the saw blade. The saw blade is not parallel with the cms edge too Deviation is also ~ 1mm when I compare position of the parallel guide from  top and bottom of the cms,  and it will create a another problem if we use sliding table... 

 

[Gregor]

In case the marks would be even in direction (only front or back of the blade making them on each side of the cut) my thought would be that the fence isn't perfectly parallel to the blade. This could be the fence in itself, or the saw in the CMS plate.

For the latter check if the adjusting knobs on the saw base plate are tightend enough to remove any play the saw might have on the rail that is in the CMS plate (prior to tightening the holders). The saw having play there might lead to fixing it to the plate slightly turned which will result in the blade being slightly twisted from being parallel to the feed direction, making a wider and less smooth kerf.

But as the marks look like to be from both the front and the back of the blade... my guess would be the nut not being tightened enough - it is is spring loaded in the TS 75, so IIRC you have to tighten it more than on a TS 55 or the blade will (only slightly, but enough to have an effect) wobble, which would perfectly explain your problems getting a smooth cut.

 

[sancho57]

Thank you for your advice. I'll retighten everything when I set my shop up again. Everything is disassembled waiting to be shipped back to the USA. It won't be long now

 

[sancho57]

Ok guys, Its been a while since I first started this thread. Ive been still fussing with it on and off, still not happy with it. I was getting close to just selling and going with something else.

So I got it sorted now and thought I would post a update and what the issue was in case someone else had a similar issue.

I  recently had a chat with a festool rep who also had a CMS with a TS 75 in it for his personal shop. So i explained the situation. Well He went through the steps with me and I believe I have the problem solved

Yes it was a toe in issue. But NOT on the saw it was the FENCE. I do have the CS 50 fence but I like useing the Angle stop fence.

So first thing to do is take the fence run it right up to the saw blade. MAKE SURE THE FENCE IS TOUCHING THE FRONT AND REAR TEETH OF THE BLADE.

I left the angle stop lose and tightened the fence in place. Then when the fence was squared to the blade I tightened every thing up including the 2 screw that tighten the 90 degree indicator.

Once I tightened everything up I went back and forth with it checking it is locking square to the blade.

Once youre happy that eerything is square, losen the anglestop and the 2 screws for 90 indicator, making sure the FRONT TOOTH of the BLADE fence IS STILL TOUCHING THE FRONT OF THE FENCE.

Take a piece of paper like a post it and put it on the rear of the fence and push te fence against the blade using the post it as a spacer.

Retighten every thing ensure the rear of the blade has very slight gap between te blade and the fence, thus setting the toe in on the fence.

I did that today and cut some framing lumber ad was geting the best cuts I have since I owned it.

Hope this helps

 

[sancho57]

In case the marks would be even in direction (only front or back of the blade making them on each side of the cut) my thought would be that the fence isn't perfectly parallel to the blade. This could be the fence in itself, or the saw in the CMS plate.

For the latter check if the adjusting knobs on the saw base plate are tightend enough to remove any play the saw might have on the rail that is in the CMS plate (prior to tightening the holders). The saw having play there might lead to fixing it to the plate slightly turned which will result in the blade being slightly twisted from being parallel to the feed direction, making a wider and less smooth kerf.

But as the marks look like to be from both the front and the back of the blade... my guess would be the nut not being tightened enough - it is is spring loaded in the TS 75, so IIRC you have to tighten it more than on a TS 55 or the blade will (only slightly, but enough to have an effect) wobble, which would perfectly explain your problems getting a smooth cut.

This is a bit late I know . But since I gave a up date on te fences toe in I thought Id comment on your advisce to.

You were correct to.

As I went through my 75 I noticed the blade nut wasn't as tight as it should be which led to some blade wobble. Once tightened it eliminated a lot of wobble.

Thought you'd like to know and thanks