GRK or Star Drive Cabinet Hardware Screws

[SoonerFan]

I have a bunch of soft close Blum Door Hinges and Blum Drawer Slides to install.  I will use both 5/8” (~16mm) and 3/4” (~19mm) screws.  For other screws I have switched almost exclusively to GRKs/star drive.  I have looked at my suppliers and online.  I have not found any GRK or other star drive screws this short.

Anyone know if these might be available somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

 

[RonMiller]

I know they used to make them but I'm not sure they do now. I've tried to find them on line as well unsuccessfully. Maybe someone else is a better searcher.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Try McFeelys. They are well known for a diverse selection of screws.

 

[waho6o9]

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/screws/drive-style~torx/torx-flat-head-screws-for-wood/

1/2" 0.279" 0.083" T10 1/16" 5/64" 18 Partially Threaded 3/8" 100 3597N11 $10.76

Number 6 ^

 

[live4ever]

Hafele seems to offer some, not sure how widely available:
https://www.hafele.com/us/en/product/euro-screw-varianta/P-00900094/

 

[morts10n]

For hinges, plates, and slides, consider ⅝ and ¾" zinc screws. #7 phillips drive for all three is your best option, and the screw finish looks better than nickel

 

[Cheese]

I know they used to make them but I'm not sure they do now. I've tried to find them on line as well unsuccessfully. Maybe someone else is a better searcher.

GRK did offer those but unfortunately, many, many years ago. I know, because as I use them I realize that my supply is rapidly going away.  [sad]

Spax does offer these square drive screws which while not as nice as Torx, they're still 10x better than Phillips.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Packard]

Someone will have to explain why I should seek out star drive screws in the very small sizes used on Blum hinges and slides (and other brands of similar items).

I seek out star drive and square drive for deck screws and pocket screws, but only because Philips head screws would frequently cam out on those applications.

There is, in my mind, two overriding reasons to use Posi-drive screws for Blum cup hinges and drawer slides.

First, I have never had one of the Posi-Drive screws cam out on me when I am using a Posi-drive screw driver. 

And second, the adjustment screws require a Posi-drive screw driver.  (I know that you can drive Posi-drive screws with a conventional Philips screw driver.)

On hinges, I mostly use the resin dowels as they are more consistent than driving screws into the boxes.  Some hinges are ordered with the dowels, and I have replacement dowels for when required.

 

[Mini Me]

Phillips screws as we use them are the wrong screw because they were designed for mass production assembly lines and camming out was a deliberate feature of that design. Pozidrive are designed not to cam out and IIRC there is a second generation of Pozidrive (Pz3) due to the IP of it timing out. To complicate matters there is a similar drive system the Japanese created called JIS which also does not cam out or so I am told but have never knowingly used them. There are YT videos explaining all the different types.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pozidrive+second+generation&oq=pozidrive+second+generation&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABiABBiiBNIBCTE2Njc3ajBqMagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?q=JIS+screws&sca_esv=f54d70af3ce3e440&ei=Do7bZtegC6eD4-EPwK7XqQk&ved=0ahUKEwjX39-iuq-IAxWnwTgGHUDXNZUQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=JIS+screws&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCkpJUyBzY3Jld3MyCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFMgYQABgHGB4yCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFMgYQABgHGB4yBhAAGAcYHjIGEAAYBxgeMgYQABgHGB4yBhAAGAcYHjIHEAAYgAQYCjIHEAAYgAQYCkjxZ1DhIFjfTXACeAGQAQCYAdQBoAGGDaoBBTAuNy4yuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIIoALACcICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAgUQABiABMICCBAAGAcYHhgPwgIEEAAYHsICDhAAGIAEGJECGLEDGIoFwgIIEAAYBxgKGB6YAwCIBgGQBgiSBwUyLjMuM6AH-jA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Spax does offer these square drive screws which while not as nice as Torx, they're still 10x better than Phillips.

With the exception of the slotted head, everything is better than Phillips.

Pozi-Driv seems to be the best choice here though, since they match the rest of the fasteners on the hinges. It just looks better, even though no one will ever notice [unsure]
We use Pozi-Driv headed dowel screws (so-called Euro-screws) for drawer guides, for the same reason. One driver fits everything, speeds up assembly.

I'm not really a fan of Torx myself, going back to the 1980s, when Jeep started using them. Seemed like a needless exaggeration of a simple Hex, which had been around for decades. The early ones were terrible, they were easily chewed-up, then difficult to remove.

 

[Mini Me]

The drivers for both generations of Pozidrive are different.

 

[Packard]

I had never heard of Posi-drive (neither has my spell checker) until I started installing Blum hinges.

I thought the square drive that Kreg adopted was the bees’ knees.  I don’t know why the star drive has won out over the square drive.  Maybe because it engages the screw with less rotation?  I don’t get it. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I like the square (Robertson) myself. That's what we use for assembly screws. They actually stay on the driver tip, without magnetic assistance. I drive a ton of screws and really dislike magnetic insert bits. They pull out of the driver/adapter, and you have to go back after the tip. The 2" ones are far more efficient.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ditto CRG above.  And also prefer Robertson to Torx. And Pozi over Phillips.

But when I started buying hardware (to install art in galleries) I was glad to find Phillips versions of screws instead of just slotted. I did have an adapter Craftsman made that fit on a hex driver bit and surrounded the head of a slotted screw so it sorta kept the bit from sliding out of the screw slot, but Phillips was much more convenient.

And back then (late ‘70’s) we only had electric drills. To drive a screw without stripping out the work or the screw head you had to lean on the drill, give the trigger a brief squeeze, and hope the chuck stopped turning in time. With experience you could adjust the length of the trigger squeeze to accommodate different wood densities and or know when to pull the drill away from the screw.

A few years later cordless drill came along. Okay for driving smaller screws. Mid-eighties I bought the first cordless hex impact driver, Hitachi 9.6 Ni-Cad, that was a game changer.

 

[Packard]

My house was built in 1953.  The two things that annoy me the most about it are the metal lath plaster walls and all the slotted head screws.

The plaster makes drilling and cutting a chore, and stud finders cannot penetrate the lath (nor can WiFi).

Replacing window screens, hinges and door knobs are all challenges because of the slotted head screws.  Drill drivers are in over their heads when addressing slotted head screws.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Oh yeah [member=74278]Packard[/member] slotted screws are a hand drive only thing. I really don't know why they persist? There is even potential for slippage/damage when hand driven, especially with doorknobs, where they are partly hidden and must be driven at an angle.

As [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member] said, impact drivers have been truly game-changers. Not in the modern over-use of the term, they made a huge difference. I wish I had one, like they are today, back in the early 90s, working in the bodyshop. So much of that time was spent wrestling with an air hose and 1/4" drive tools.
Light-duty tasks, like interior parts removal, or even smaller bolts on fenders, would have been so much easier. Once you get above 1/4" or 6mm bolts, the 1/4" hex is beginning to show its shortcomings and you should step up to a real impact wrench, but that is well above woodworking/cabinetry requirements.

 

[Cheese]

I thought the square drive that Kreg adopted was the bees’ knees.  I don’t know why the star drive has won out over the square drive.  Maybe because it engages the screw with less rotation?  I don’t get it.

There are a number of issues at play...Torx vs Robertson vs hex-drive

1. Torx is capable of delivering the largest amount of drive torque to the screw recess without damaging the screw head or the driver.

2. Robertson uses a tapered screw recess and a tapered driver head so cam-out can still be a problem although not to the same magnitude as Phillips drive screws. Neither Torx nor hex-drive use tapered screw heads or tapered drivers.

3. Robertson only has 4-sides with which to distribute the torque loads while Torx and hex-drive have 6 sides for better load distribution.

4. Robertson and hex-drive drivers can rotate a small amount in the screw head thereby not transmitting the torque loads in a parallel fashion to the recess but rather at an angle to the recess. This rounds the corners of both drivers.

5. While hex-drive will not cam-out like Robertson, it has a smaller drive geometry than the equivalent sized Robertson so it takes less damage to the hex-drive driver to create a larger problem.

For all of these reasons I prefer to use Torx screws. They've been steadfastly replacing the Robertson screws in the construction industry for the last 20 years or so.

Torx are especially nice when using boards for concrete forming. [big grin]

Robertson are especially horrible for use on stainless fasteners. The heads go South in a hurry.  [mad]

 

[Mini Me]

I have a question that someone might be able to answer, is there a square drive that does not have the tapered form of the Robertson drive?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have a question that someone might be able to answer, is there a square drive that does not have the tapered form of the Robertson drive?

The only ones I know of are not exactly what you would call fasteners. There are some pipe plugs that have an internal square drive, usually 3/8", to fit the common American ratchets.

 

[six-point socket II]

As far as I know there is. If that is intentional or out of pure negligence, I don’t know. I couldn’t name a manufacturer right now.  Robertson is always tapered. If it’s square and not tapered, it obviously isn’t. You can even find square drive drivers that are not tapered and thus not Robertson/Scrulox drivers. But again, if intentional or pure negligence/ to reduce cost. - I don’t know.

Kind regards,
Oliver