Guide Rail T-Square

[fshanno]

My need is to do production crosscutting of sheet goods for entire large kitchens.  Dozens of crosscuts one after the other as fast as possible.  Minimal material handling.  Slide full sheets onto the 4x8 cutting platform and lift components cut to size off.  Then over to the MFT for holes and edgebanding and whatever.

I keep thinking that the real answer for crosscutting is a dedicated implement.  A solid 1/4" aluminum square with a bar screwed to the top to guide the saw.  You'd lose cutting depth but I'm focusing on sheet goods.

No friction tape.  One strip of splinter guard tape on the cutting edge just like a normal guide and a strip of teflon tape to level the square.  The square is held in place by hand pressure on the square itself.  Maybe a handle would be required to get more leverage.  The point is that the thing needs to be slippery enough so that it slides easily to the mark with no resistance from the far side.  This is drop dead crucial if you are going to incorporate a stop.

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about.

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Seems like Woodpeckers could knock these out with no problem.

 

[greg mann]

I must admit to missing the tongue in cheek. Oh well. Roger posts here occasionally but very often on Talkfestool. He is a fine craftsman and his posts are always of value. I am certainly not immune to carrying the notion of precision to stupid levels. Just last week I needed to account for an 8 inch differential in a length setting. As I pondered what I could use to account for that length I remembered a set of gauge blocks I had picked up at an estate sale. So here I was, racking up a four, a three, and a one to make up an eight inch spacer, to cut wood for crying out loud. :

Greg,

I guess tongue-in-cheek humor does not translate when typed out. My NEED for many tools is mostly driven by the fact I just like nice tools, hence I convince myself I NEED them for some reason.  [embarassed] This is evidenced by drawers full of red Starrett boxes, tools often in pristine condition.

I am familiar with the "1/2 the error method" & have used it from time to time. I like the "good setup hygiene" concept & will have to Google Mr. Savatteri as I am unfamiliar with him/his wisdom.

Thanks,

RMW

I work with some of the most precise measuring tools in the metalcutting industry but I question the need for a precision square to check your unit out. What really matters is the RESULTS you get. Take a representative sample of MDF and create a pristine edge to reference your square off. Make a square cut to that one, flip it over so that you are referencing off the same edge but with the part upside down to the first cut and make another cut. Measure the length of the reference edge and the one opposite. They should be the same length. If not, correct out 1/2 the error and try again. It is virtually without cost and has the advantage of reflecting what you really are getting as opposed to what you think you will get by setting your square against a master. Roger Savatteri calls this 'good setup hygiene', i.e., checking what you get versus checking the setup only.

 

[jmbfestool]

That would be perfect!  If festool or woodpecker or any one could machine up a one piece rail and square!  Down side to it if you wanted a 800 version and/or. 1400  or longer it could end up costing you alot of money.

Alan the sketch up drawin I did was just rough not to scale hence why it might look massive!

Jmb

 

[rmwarren]

Greg,

I understand the affliction, which is why I limit myself to hobby pursuits. I could never make a living with my hands, everything I touch takes 4-times as long as is should "to get it right". Oh well.

I did Google Roger and found some links to him but his own site seems to be down. I have to admire anyone who managed to justify 3 BCTW JMP's.

RMW

I must admit to missing the tongue in cheek. Oh well. Roger posts here occasionally but very often on Talkfestool. He is a fine craftsman and his posts are always of value. I am certainly not immune to carrying the notion of precision to stupid levels. Just last week I needed to account for an 8 inch differential in a length setting. As I pondered what I could use to account for that length I remembered a set of gauge blocks I had picked up at an estate sale. So here I was, racking up a four, a three, and a one to make up an eight inch spacer, to cut wood for crying out loud. :

Greg,

I guess tongue-in-cheek humor does not translate when typed out. My NEED for many tools is mostly driven by the fact I just like nice tools, hence I convince myself I NEED them for some reason.  [embarassed] This is evidenced by drawers full of red Starrett boxes, tools often in pristine condition.

I am familiar with the "1/2 the error method" & have used it from time to time. I like the "good setup hygiene" concept & will have to Google Mr. Savatteri as I am unfamiliar with him/his wisdom.

Thanks,

RMW

I work with some of the most precise measuring tools in the metalcutting industry but I question the need for a precision square to check your unit out. What really matters is the RESULTS you get. Take a representative sample of MDF and create a pristine edge to reference your square off. Make a square cut to that one, flip it over so that you are referencing off the same edge but with the part upside down to the first cut and make another cut. Measure the length of the reference edge and the one opposite. They should be the same length. If not, correct out 1/2 the error and try again. It is virtually without cost and has the advantage of reflecting what you really are getting as opposed to what you think you will get by setting your square against a master. Roger Savatteri calls this 'good setup hygiene', i.e., checking what you get versus checking the setup only.

 

[greg mann]

Greg,

I understand the affliction, which is why I limit myself to hobby pursuits. I could never make a living with my hands, everything I touch takes 4-times as long as is should "to get it right". Oh well.

I did Google Roger and found some links to him but his own site seems to be down. I have to admire anyone who managed to justify 3 BCTW JMP's.

RMW


We are in the same boat. If I needed to make a living in woodworking I would starve. But then, if I had started out in it as I did as a toolmaker/machinist/manufacturing engineer/etc., I have little doubt I could have been successful at some level. But no regrets. I make enough in those fields to support my woodworking addiction.  :

Three JMPs. [blink] Between you, him, and me we prove my Grandmother's old saying, "Each man is crazy in his own way."  [embarassed]

 

[rmwarren]

Seems like reinventing the wheel to make an entire new guide rail rather than use the existing Festool guide rail???

Here is a bit simpler version. So long as the 2 faces are precisely perpendicular to something like +/- 0.0002" I can't see why it would not work to just attach/remove as needed and get double duty from your existing guide rails.

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Making a one-piece t-square would require a heck of a chunk of aluminum and a lot of machining, very costly. The attachment could probably be done for +/- $100 - $150 if they were made in quantity.

Just my  [2cents]

RMW

That would be perfect!  If festool or woodpecker or any one could machine up a one piece rail and square!   Down side to it if you wanted a 800 version and/or. 1400  or longer it could end up costing you alot of money.

Alan the sketch up drawin I did was just rough not to scale hence why it might look massive!

Jmb

 

[Michael Kellough]

Here's a rough idea...

How about start with a commercial drywall T-square for $20.

You'd have to use it on the far end because of the asymmetrical fit of the head
to the leg but that shouldn't make any difference.

Figure out a bracket (need a pair) to attach the leg to the outboard slot of the guide rail.

Cut the leg down to about 24" and use the offcut to make a triangle to stiffen the thing
and provide a way to tweak the angle.

 

[Alan m]

hi there
i came up with idea a few posts back and did it tonight.
i used my big fold out square and taped on 2 bolts (not threaded the whole way)
and used rmw s rail attacments
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[Alan m]

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[Alan m]

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[Alan m]

sorry for the way the pics are. i can rever get them on there right.

the best of the big square is that the parralel (to rail) arm sits on the work piece and the Perpendicular arm sits down infront of the piece and acts as a fence. the diagonal arm helps keep the perpendicular arm from flapping down.

i think i will look out for a smaller version . i think jmb has one.

the best of this is that it folds up nice and small . it wont fit in the sleeve anymore but probably would fit in the duide rail bag

 

[rmwarren]

Love it Alan, simple and effective.

Only suggestion I have is to set the bolts in far enough that they pull the rail all the way to the square, then you are not relying on the bolts being perfectly placed. It looks like there is a small gap now and it could introduce error.

Great idea.

RMW

 

[Alan m]

Love it Alan, simple and effective.

Only suggestion I have is to set the bolts in far enough that they pull the rail all the way to the square, then you are not relying on the bolts being perfectly placed. It looks like there is a small gap now and it could introduce error.

Great idea.

RMW

there is a slight gap . i did that to try and remove error . i was afraid that if the measurment was off a small bit then it wouldnt align properly.
i see where you are coming from. i might try that on the next smaller one when i get one.
i aligned it with the holes in my mft and it all seems square to teh eye . when i use it a bit i will see if it is 100 % square.

 

[rmwarren]

The way those clips work in this situation the bolts don't have to be the same distance from the edge of the square, just close. Lock one clip in place and slide the rail tight to the square, then slide the other clip on the rail until tight and screw it down.

I always thought the clips were the most useful piece on the rip dogs, but I never really spent any time coming up with other uses. Your idea has me thinking.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Jonhilgen]

My need is to do production crosscutting of sheet goods for entire large kitchens.  Dozens of crosscuts one after the other as fast as possible.  Minimal material handling.  Slide full sheets onto the 4x8 cutting platform and lift components cut to size off.  Then over to the MFT for holes and edgebanding and whatever.

I keep thinking that the real answer for crosscutting is a dedicated implement.  A solid 1/4" aluminum square with a bar screwed to the top to guide the saw.  You'd lose cutting depth but I'm focusing on sheet goods.

No friction tape.  One strip of splinter guard tape on the cutting edge just like a normal guide and a strip of teflon tape to level the square.  The square is held in place by hand pressure on the square itself.  Maybe a handle would be required to get more leverage.  The point is that the thing needs to be slippery enough so that it slides easily to the mark with no resistance from the far side.  This is drop dead crucial if you are going to incorporate a stop.

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about.

[attachimg=1]

Seems like Woodpeckers could knock these out with no problem.

Fshanno, qwas makes a dedicated square for a guide rail.  I have one permanently attached to one of my 1500 rails and I can cross cut the bejeesus out of sheet goods for a kitchen build.  Completely negates the need for an mft, and when I'm done I can hang the guild rail in my truck for site work (much easier than lugging an mft around.)
Jon

 

[rmwarren]

Alan - I used your idea & added some small posts to my t-square for the rip clips.

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I used a small aluminum spacer (1/2" by 3/8" high) and an M8 button head cap screw, just tapped the aluminum. The head of the screw is just slightly larger than 1/2" and the height exactly the same as the clip, it locks in place nicely.

Thanks for the idea.

RMW

Love it Alan, simple and effective.

Only suggestion I have is to set the bolts in far enough that they pull the rail all the way to the square, then you are not relying on the bolts being perfectly placed. It looks like there is a small gap now and it could introduce error.

Great idea.

RMW

there is a slight gap . i did that to try and remove error . i was afraid that if the measurment was off a small bit then it wouldnt align properly.
i see where you are coming from. i might try that on the next smaller one when i get one.
i aligned it with the holes in my mft and it all seems square to teh eye . when i use it a bit i will see if it is 100 % square.

 

[Alan m]

how do you think it works.
i like mine . the square is too big for smaller parts but i like how small it is folded .

 

[GPowers]

[popcorn]

 

[rmwarren]

Just an update - some photos of the t-square with recently added Incra track and stop.

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Scale works from about 9" to 24", longer Incra track would give more.

RMW