Help staining Poplar doors

[kfitzsimons]

  I have several 4 panel poplar interior doors to stain. They're pretty clear, not much green in them. Sanded to 180 - 220. I'm going to use Old Masters Wiping Stain in a custom blend (sort of cherry color). I want to avoid any blotching so I'm planning to use a 50/50 blend of Zinsser Bullseye Seal Coat Universal Sanding Sealer (wax free) and denatured alcohol as a first coat sealer.  Dry overnight, then apply the wiping stain.
  Anyone have any other advice for staining poplar to get great results? I've read Bob Flexner's book on finishing and it doesn't really address poplar specifically and his opinion of sanding sealer is a bit confusing to me.
  Any help is appreciated.
  Kevin

 

[GaryLaroff]

Kevin,

Bob Flexner tends to dislike sanding sealers due to their stearate content which aids in sanding and because they are often too soft an undercoat.  Since Zinsser products are based on shellac, they might not be soft or stearated.  Why not just use diluted Zinsser shellac?

Poplar is a smooth mostly closed grain wood and you don't want grit marks to show up under the stain. Sand well.

Try sanding to 320 grit with Brilliant-2 abrasive using your favorite sander or by hand.  Dampen with water to raise the grain, let dry and gently sand off the hairs by hand with the same abrasive.  Apply a coat of Zinsser shellac diluted as 1 part shallac to 2 parts denatured alcohol.  Let dry.  Then take the same 320 grit abrasive on a hand block (the Festool hard blocks are very nice) and gently go over the poplar to get the fuzz and grit off the shellac.  Don't cut though the shellac to the bare wood.  Then use the Old Masters stain.

Gary

 

[tiralie]

Kevin:
I hate sanding sealers unless I want to slowly build a color (like a glazing) to match an existing piece.
I use a prestain conditioner (BOL thinned with mineral spirits or a waterborne version for waterborne finish) on wood that blotches and it works very well on fir, pine and maple etc.
Once dry, go a head and use your wiping stain as usual.
I know some finishers that wipe down distilled water before they stain and this works, although I haven't used it.
Tim

 

[BigHonu]

I just finished up staining some poplar, and it was a real learning experience.

Like someone else mentioned, sand up to 320 and raise the grain with water. I knocked the raised grain down, then raised it again with water. I use water based gel stains and noticed that poplar tends to get a lot of fibers to pop up if you you only raise the grain once with water.

With the gel stain, I LIBERALLY apply it and try to keep the section I'm working on wet. Once the gel barely starts drying out you'll get more blotching than usual. Wipe off the excess and move on to the next section.

I'm a novice to wood working, but just wanted to pass along my experiences. Let us know how it turns out and what technique you ended up using.

 

[kfitzsimons]

Thanks for the suggestions fellows.  Tim, what's "BOL"?

 

[mouppe]

I am guessing he means BLO- Boiled Linseed Oil. Perhaps the spellchecker switched it around without him noticing.

To avoid blotching, a light coat of shellac can help even the stain a lot. I always use shellac before applying a gel stain.

 

[tiralie]

I am guessing he means BLO- Boiled Linseed Oil. Perhaps the spellchecker switched it around without him noticing.

Kevin:
Sorry, yes I meant to spell BLO - Boiled Linseed Oil not BOL.  [oops]
Thanks Richard.
Tim

 

[Tim Sproul]

I've read Bob Flexner's book on finishing and it doesn't really address poplar specifically and his opinion of sanding sealer is a bit confusing to me.
 

That is because poplar is most often used when you want to paint the wood with opaque tinted paint (cannot see through).  Poplar has little grain pattern and hence it isn't "all that" when stained.  The green part of poplar will turn an olive brown color over time and the lighter parts of poplar will also darken a bit with exposure to light.

If you also state what the look is you are after, folks might be able to provide more help.  Are you looking for the poplar to turn out like oiled American black cherry?  Walnut?  Just a deep, dark stain?  A light reddish-brown color?

I will also echo other's opinion on sanding sealer and the Sealcoat.  The sealcoat is dewaxed shellac provided in a 2 pound cut.  If you thin it to 0.5 pound cut, it will make a good sanding sealer without the problems of a "sanding sealer."  The need for sanding sealer or the 0.5 pound cut of shellac depends on what you are looking for in the final appearance.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Your method should work fine.  Best advice is always to try it on a piece of scrap (or an out of sight part of the door) first.

Big Honu has a good point about raising the grain and then sanding.  Poplar varies a lot, but some of it really gets fuzzy after the first coat.

 

[RDMuller]

If you have an ML Campbell Distributor close by, work with them.  I have learned a lot using their lacquer based products on poplar.  You MUST be able to spray.  They will advise you on sanding, blotch control with appropriate sealers for what you are trying to do, finish, etc.  ---- and on finishing --- most importantly if you are having color variations that  require some alteration (i.e. darker), the use of tinting shading additives in the topcoat to allow you to Tone the finish.  Don't try to fix everything at the "raw stain level" 

  If you don't want to go this route, I have found numerous gel stains work pretty well on poplar.  I generally try to use a little bit of some sort of a commercial stain conditioner before applying the gel stains.

Most importantly, practice and take what you think are your finished samples into the room where they will reside and look at them under both daylight and the interior lights at night(incandescent, tungsten, or whatever).  Color temperatures can really fool you when you get into the house.  Also --- the light intensity can fool you.  I have pieces that looked great (or so I thought) outside look like they were almost black inside.  Fortunately incandescent night light really brightened them up

 

[kfitzsimons]

The look I'm going for is to match the trim in my home. We restained the trim years ago (probably 18). It's a medium tone of cherry with a hint of orange / brown. It sounds odd, but looks fine. The Old Masters Wiping Stain is not a gel, but is a fairly thick wipe-on oil stain that can be used on wood, fiberglas, etc.  It's been an ordeal trying to get a custom matched color.  I've used it on an oak stair railing and it looks beautiful. When we renovated our bathrooms (16 years ago), we used poplar 4 paneled doors and the finishers did a great job of matching the trim. I wish I would have written down what they used.  Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm going to get started this weekend.
  Kevin

 

[HowardH]

Charles Neil has a blotch control conditioner that is water based and thus environmentally friendly.  Not cheap but seems to work pretty well. 

 

[norwegian wood]

use a minwax WB stain that is close to the final color you are looking for. that will act as a nice conditioner for you to apply an oil based stain over it and you will not get blotchy. i refinish pine and maple floors all the time and those type of woods always get splotchy. and i have found by using WB stain first and a second coat of oil it comes out very even.

you can also mix together waterlox tongue oil and oil modified stain and it goes on very even on those types of woods, but not really a recipe if you want to go with very dark color and sometimes requires two coats of this concoction