Help with a new table saw and router table

[Joelm]

So I'm a hobbyist about to do a big move to Canada and have to decide what to do with my tools. I'll have a 12'X19' garage, which is slightly bigger than my current shop.  When I get to my new house I've decided it's time to buy my first table saw. I'm definitely getting a sawstop but I'm unsure which one to get.

Most of my tools (Festool MFT, TS 55, OF 101, Kapex, Carvex, CXS, TXS, etc) are coming with but I made a large 60"X30" router table last summer using an Incra LS 25 supersystem with a Mast-R-Lift ll and cleansweep dust collection cabinet. I could take all the components out of the table and carefully pack them up for a move. Then when I arrive I could get a contractor saw and buy the Incra conversion kit with a new table saw router top insert. This would take up a lot of space in my small shop, but I think I can work around it.

The other option is to dump my Incra stuff here, go with a Festool CMS VL so it attaches to my MFT and can be disassembled. For the table saw, I could then get the jobsite sawstop so it also can be out of the way.

I have not actually seen my new garage but I know the dimensions. I just don't want to ship something heavy only not to use it. I guess I could just bring it and then sell it when I arrive if I don't need it. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[CeeJay]

Your new shop is about the same size as mine (19’ x 14’).

I’ve got a full sized table saw (54” rip) and I built my router lift into the extended table. If you aren’t going to be moving the table saw I’d be inclined to go for a cabinet saw and incorporate your existing router table components into the extension top. I find it a very efficient use of the space.

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[ChuckM]

On the tablesaw, I highly recommend the SawStop PCS (3HP if possible; mine is 1.75HP) over the contractor model. Two previous contractor model owners I know sold theirs to upgrade to a PCS, and that should tell you the difference.  (I have used the PCS and/or ICS (5HP, 480V(?)) on and off for close to 15 years.)

Get the PCS with the T-glide fence, industrial mobile base and the overarm dust collection. I haven't met one single PCS owner who isn't happy with such set-up. One-time investment, lifetime enjoyment!

Twice (?) a year, SawStop has a promotion sale that gives you a free overarm or a free mobile base upgrade.

Edit: Also get the Jessem stock guides for kickback protection and for handling of larger sheets.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have the Sawstop Industrial model with 3HP and I totally endorse ChuckM’s recommendation. He’s dead on. Even without the safety feature, it’s a great saw.

 

[rmhinden]

On the tablesaw, I highly recommend the SawStop PCS (3HP if possible; mine is 1.75HP) over the contractor model.
....

That's the same setup I have, 3HP PCS, 36", industrial mobile base, overarm dust collection, and Jessem guides.

I am very pleased with it and recommend it.

Bob

 

[CeeJay]

Do any of you PCS owners have a router lift incorporated in the table saw extension? I think that’s what OP was interested in.

My saw is Powermatic not SawStop but that’s not really relevant to the query I think.

My view is incorporating the router lift into the table saw is a great way to maximise space in a small shop.

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[tdwilli1]

I have that setup and it's working great. PCS, 36", sliding table and built in router.

 

[ChuckM]

SawStop's website and numerous YouTube videos show the PCS or ICS mounted with a router. An important consideration is where you place the table saw and hence if access to the router if installed on the table saw is an issue. I ruled out mounting a router on my PCS because the saw is parked in a corner between a column and a wall. I prefer not to have to move the saw out every time I use a router.

 

[Joelm]

These are all great replies. Thanks everyone!

So the consensus is, jobsite and contractors saw is a no. Professional saw, preferably with 3hp is the way to go. I'll have to see how feasible it is to run 220v outlets to the new garage. I might just opt for the 110v.

Anyone know if the Mast-R-Lift ll and cleansweep can be easily installed onto the sawstop cast iron router table insert? The size of the opening is the same as the Mast-R-Lift ll but I don't want to just assume it'll slot right in. If it does, would I want it on the left or right side of the table saw? I assume if it's the right, I can mount it where the rails are and keep the footprint smaller.

Maybe I'll get the base PCS 30" when I get there and order either the Incra rails so I can use my L25 positioner or upgrade to the 36" rails.

What I don't want happening again is two large tables (MFT and my large router table) taking up all the space in my shop and not being able to walk around them without knocking something off the table.

Thanks again for the replies, planning a new workshop is helping keep my sanity during this move

 

[rmhinden]

There is also a Facebook SawStop group you can join, see:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sawstopusersgroup

These questions have been asked many times

Bob

 

[Joelm]

Thanks Bob. Guess I'm out of luck.

I'm never going to sign up for a Facebook account.  [smile]

 

[JimD]

I have the 1.75hp PCS and am very happy with it.  It does not like deep rips, even in softwood, with a full kerf blade, even a ripping blade.  With a good one it will do it but it works much better with a thin kerf blade.  I ripped 1 1/8 oak today with an all around blade but over 2 inches definitely needs a ripping blade.  I suspect a 3hp will do more work with a full kerf combination blade but as long as you switch to thin kerf blades I think the 1.75hp motor is fine.  I have used a bunch of blades on it but Freuds work well, Infinity did not.  I have the 36 inch fence and did not want the 52 for my 14x24 foot shop.  I use a track saw for bigger cuts in sheet or solid wood.

I have had a router table in the table saw extension wing but it got in the way.  I much prefer a separate router table which is what I have now.  The top is a sink cutout with hardwood around it and backed by a piece of 3/4 plywood.  My table has a home made lift and the top tilts up for bit changes.  It works great.  I cannot imagine a 30x60 router table.  24x30 should be big enough.  I set all my tools at about 38 inches height so I can more easily slide work over other tools when necessary.  I would keep your fence and lift and make a new smaller router table.  The arrangement of mine is like Norm's from New Yankee workshop. 

 

[ChuckM]

These are all great replies. Thanks everyone!

So the consensus is, jobsite and contractors saw is a no. Professional saw, preferably with 3hp is the way to go. I'll have to see how feasible it is to run 220v outlets to the new garage. I might just opt for the 110v.
Snip.

The extra expenses incurred on running 220V outlets to your shop will be worth it in my view.

If you do decide to go for the 1.75HP (which you can upgrade to 3HP by buying a kit, but it'll cost more money and work), you'll need a rip blade for thicker stock. I have the 30T 1/8" WW blade (https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/saw-blades/table-saw/46446-forrest-woodworker-blades). There's a huge difference in ripping hardwood (mostly walnut, oak, maple and sapele for me) using that rip blade as compared to using the 40T WW blade which I keep for regular stock 3/4" or under.

Even if you end up with a 3HP model, I'd still recommend a rip blade, given my experience with a 5HP 480V model in ripping.

By the way, if you're wondering how good the SawStop 10" Titanium-Coated Saw Blade, pass it. I wish I had gone straight for the WWII 40T blade.

 

[Joelm]

I cannot imagine a 30x60 router table.

My router table was a 30x60 worktable that my wife and I share in the garage. At the time I didn't want to get rid of it but wanted something more substantial than the Ryobi tabletop table I had. Someone here on FOG had the amazing idea of turning it into a router table. It worked out fantastic for my Builder Board project. I doubt I'll need something that large again. Once I was done with the table, I covered the dog holes with parf dogs and put on a solid plate over the router hole to protect the bit in there and used it as a regular work table.

Here is a link to my build thread:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/custom-router-table/msg586337/#msg586337

 

[Joelm]

I was looking at the size of pcs last night.  Their site says it is 34" tall which is too short for an mft outfeed table. What a shame. Right now I have 1 mft, an mw1000 extension table  and kapex extension wings that all work together.
Has anyone lifted theirs up enough to line up with an mft? Or just put your folded up mft on a cart?

 

[ChuckM]

Faint memory but I recall seeing a YouTuber who "raised his saw" by rolling its saw (upgraded mobile base?) up onto a platform on the floor. He could move the saw  down back to the shop floor if he so desired. Depending on how much the saw needs to be lifted up from the floor, the platform could just be a few ply sheets laid on the ground. A platform box isn't hard to build with 2x4 and ply materials either, but make sure it (as well as the ramp) can support the load (say 500 lbs or so for a PCS), and you have a couple of buddies to help you with the move.

Question: Can other tables be cut short to line up with the PCS instead?

 

[Joelm]

Thanks everyone for the great replies.
Just to give you an update. We are settled into our new house and I'm building out my new shop now.
Unfortunately I've got to share it with a large cargo bike and garbage/recycling bins. I'm also planning on parking my car in the garage when we get nasty freezing rain in the winter. So this means I don't currently have space for a PCS. In the spring I'll build a bike shed in the backyard.
For now I'm going to be getting a sawstop jobsite saw and hold off on a router table.  I've mapped out where the saw can folded up and it looks like it will fit.
I'll live with the saw this winter and see how much I use it.  I might keep it or sell it and buy a pcs when I have room.
I might even decide that leaving the car outside in the winter is fine. I don't know, it's been 20 years since I've lived in Ottawa. I'm used to the warm wet winters of Seattle.
As for the router table, I might pick up a cms vl (if I can find one) or build something like Ron Paul is currently doing with his router tables.

 

[mkasdin]

I have the Sawstop Industrial model with 3HP and I totally endorse ChuckM’s recommendation. He’s dead on. Even without the safety feature, it’s a great saw.

you can also get the professional PCS in a 5hp, but you have to custom order it. Sawstop don’t advertise that package, they want you to buy the industrial. 12x19 is a large single car garage. Any saw will take up the majority of space and everything sits around it. Get some the mobile base so you can push it against the wall to free up space? Separate the router and the TS and use the router table as an outfeed table ? The Contractor JSS Pro is good if you plan on parking your car in the garage at night, then in the morning tossing the saw in the back of the van or trailer? The aluminum table flatness is .032” tolerance on the JSS. The contractor saw is .016 and the cabinet saws are tighter tolerances and standard cast iron wings and a 420 pound weight?