HL850 or Full Size Jointer?

[peter halle]

A jointer serves two purposes.  First it is used to flatten one side of lumber.  Secondly, when that face is put up against the fence and pushed thru it will then create a face at a user set up angle to the flattened face.  

Using a router table as a jointer will only deal with the edge.  If you are buying your materials pre-planed so that the two faces are parallel and flat, then you could use a router table.  A track saw on a rail can speed up the edge jointing process.

The HL850 on the stand will have a very limited ability to flatten a face based on its limited width.  On edges it would have a capacity to handle a wider variety of lumber.

Peter

 

[semenza]

I'm in the same boat.  Using a handheld 1400 with a bearing riding on a MDF edge for my jointing.  It works, but not well.  I had considered getting the HL 850 and the jointer-related accessories.  The cost of that is over $700.

I'm also considering hand planes, but I'd need all the flattening and sharpening accessories.  Not cheap for decent stuff.

Also considering building a router table.

What would allow me to joint edges and give me the most utility and value for the cost?

For edge jointing, the router table with a split fence. Because it can also do all the router table jobs.

I use a router table for edge jointing and I manage to flatten boards (face joint) with my lunch box planer. If they are really cupped I rip them for narrow parts, or start the flattening with  the HL850. If I am edge jointing  boards for a glue up I use the TS55.

Given the shop space I would buy a big jointer. But a combination of tools will get the job done.

Seth

 

[tiralie]

For edge jointing, the router table with a split fence. Because it can also do all the router table jobs.

+1  [thumbs up]Probably the cheapest but by no means easy to set up. Also with anything thicker than 8/4-10/4 you are pushing the limits of router bit lengths

Given the shop space I would buy a big jointer.

+1.  [thumbs up] Understanding the need to balance needs and wants and based on the quality of the work you are doing, I would think this (a jointer) would be the best solution. Have you looked into the used market?
Tim

 

[semenza]

For edge jointing, the router table with a split fence. Because it can also do all the router table jobs.

+1  [thumbs up]Probably the cheapest but by no means easy to set up. Also with anything thicker than 8/4-10/4 you are pushing the limits of router bit lengths

Good point that would not work as well for some of the thick stock that Julie mentioned, but may  be workable for Kodi. I did joint some  3" x 3" x 36" pieces on the HL850 set up. It worked quite well for that.

Seth

 

[Kodi Crescent]

This is a real dilemma for me.  Hand tools, HL 850, or router table.  I don't know that I have space for the router table, so I may have to resort to one of these other options.

Maybe my wife can park outside the garage... ;D

 

[ScotF]

Well I just got the HL850 and the stand and bigger fence.  It worked flawlessly to level some 2x in my bathroom remodel and I am going to try and put together a detailed review sometime in the future when I get the time.  This thing is awesome!  I had a chance to use it some in one of the Festool classes and it can cut end-grain of figured maple or douglas fir with no tear out -- it also runs pretty quiet for a jointer and it is very, very smooth.  I think with practice you can get pretty good at using it to fair an edge or clean up the face of the stock.  I have an arsenal of hand planes, including Lie-Nielsen's #8 jointer plane and that is a beast when trying to flatten the face of a board -- a very robust workout indeed.  I am also fortunate enough to have a 12 inch jointer so I am really equipped to handle most anything that comes through my shop.  However, having a small jointer like the 850 was so appealing to me for all of the little parts and pieces you need to tweak as you build a project.  I agree that trying to edge 8 foot boards would be difficult if impossible with this machine, but it seems ideal for the smaller stuff so common in furniture.  The separate Angle stop fence is very robust and adjustable and I like the fact that you can cut chamfers pretty easily with the groove in its sole. 

I think that if you got this jointer and a lunch-box planer you could pretty much accomplish most jointing/planing operations and you would not necessarily be tied to a shop.  As Peter mentioned, one of the key things of a jointer is to establish a flat face on your stock.  You do not need to get it 100% flat before sending it through the planer -- just 70%-80% or so -- you want enough of the face to be flat so that when it goes through the planer it does not move.  Once you send one side through the planer and flatten the opposite side then it is just a matter of flipping the board over and sending it through to get the right thickness.  I like using the track saw to get my edges square to the face and his does a great job and is fast.  I am eager to try the 850 to touch up an edge for gluing to see how it does.  Since it has a spiral head you do not get the little ripples so common with straight knives.

Good luck on your decision and you might want to make it before month-end as the price is going up April 1.

Scot

 

[jacko9]

Julie,  If you are going to continue doing woodworking for a period of time, get a long bed jointer at least 8" wide.  Here's my Poitras jointer, 35 years old with carbide blades.  It has a cast iron base and it's rock solid, never needs adjustment and just keeps on cutting.

Jack

 

[JuliMor]

Right now, when I joint, I use a Lie-Nielsen #62 Jack Plane.  I draw a line with a straight edge and plane down to it.  It works pretty well but you have to be constantly watching keeping square to the face.  I would imagine a #7 or #8 jointer plane, because of its larger size, would be a bit more difficult to tame and easier to rock side to side.  And when you're working highly figured woods, it's sometimes necessary to skew the blade to avoid chip out.

Obviously, an 8" jointer with an 6' or longer bed and helical cutter head would be make life a lot easier but that's just not in the cards for me.

This is a video by David Moore, a young guy and a great ambassador for keeping the woodworking trade alive.  He probably is half my age and has ten times the energy but the video is good educationally because it shows you what you can do with hand tools if you take the time to become proficient with them.  I suppose you'd get in great shape along the way too.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

That's a neat video.  This was a lesson to a power tool junkie:



Makes you question technology.

 

[tiralie]

Right now, when I joint, I use a Lie-Nielsen #62 Jack Plane.  I draw a line with a straight edge and plane down to it.  It works pretty well but you have to be constantly watching keeping square to the face.  I would imagine a #7 or #8 jointer plane, because of its larger size, would be a bit more difficult to tame and easier to rock side to side.  And when you're working highly figured woods, it's sometimes necessary to skew the blade to avoid chip out.

Julie:
I have both the LN #62 Jack Plane and the #7. I use both, but definitely reach for the #62 much more often. There was an interview with Thomas Lie-Nielsen, about what his favorite plane was and he said the it was the #62.
I am 6' 2" and 225 lbs. so swinging the #7 not an issue but I find I get as good a joint faster with the #62 and it's easier to create a spring joint.
I often plane the two mating boards together, that way if I am off a bit on square it is compensated for in the mating board when doing a glue up. This is not always possible however.
Tim

 

[RC]

Can anyone compare the practical differences between the EHL65 and HL850's capabilities in their respective jointer stands outside of the obvious 15mm of capacity difference?

How much does the HL850's optional fence make it better? Would you get both if you had one or just be happy with either one?

 

[semenza]

Can anyone compare the practical differences between the EHL65 and HL850's capabilities in their respective jointer stands outside of the obvious 15mm of capacity difference?

How much does the HL850's optional fence make it better? Would you get both if you had one or just be happy with either one?

I can't compare to the 65, but as far as the fence goes..... you really need it to make use of the 850  with stand as a jointer.  Need to have the large 90 degree reference surface.

Seth