How many AutoCad users do we have?

[peter halle]

I was just wondering with the popularity of SketchUp how many AutoCad users we have here?  Anyone?

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

Peter:

I've used Autocad for decades but not on purpose. Autocad and Sketchup seemingly both use the ParaSolids engine, the mathematical basis for the software. Most solid modeling software uses it.

I worked in the consulting group of PTC for the better part of a decade. They have their own, superior, proprietary modeling engine. The mathematics behind PTC's engine and ParaSolids are dramatically different. The difference results in more complex solutions at a more refined resolution.

I don't think there's a dime's worth of difference in what Google gives away free and other implementations of ParaSolids. I may be wrong though because I haven't really had time to follow closely. At the turn of the Century, I determined to not care...

Tom

 

[RONWEN]

Peter:

I've used Autocad for decades but not on purpose. Autocad and Sketchup seemingly both use the Parasolids engine, the mathematical basis for the software. Most solid modeling software uses it.

I worked in the consulting group of PTC for the better part of a decade. They have their own, superior, proprietary modeling engine. The mathematics behind PTC's engine and Parasolids are dramatically different. The difference results in more complex solutions at a more refined resolution.

I don't think there's a dime's worth of difference in what Google gives away free and other implementations of Parasolids. I may be wrong though because I haven't really had time to follow closely. At the turn of the Century, I determined to not care...

Tom

My engineers and I used Pro/E for several years (about ~15 years ago) but wouldn't go so far as to say it is "superior".  

I used to use AutoCad for plant layouts, etc. and still use it occasionally.  For mechanical design I much prefer SolidWorks.

 

[land_kel]

Acadlt 2014 here...

 

[tbellemare]

There are many reasons why people prefer different things, Ron, and I respect your preferences.

If I remember correctly, SolidWorks uses the ParaSolids engine also and was started by some coders that left PTC with the money they got at the IPO.

There is a difference if you are solving problems like complex, double enveloping involutes for small physical volume, high strength gears or even complex surface solutions that intersect.

If I were doing plant layout or architectural work, the ParaSolids engine would be perfectly adequate and I might reach for it. A long time ago, Computervision had some cool software for plant layout, including piping, structural, etc. that was pretty good. When they launched it, the computing power of even very sophisticated engineering departments wasn't there. The refresh rates were punishing and rendering took a day or more.

What most woodworkers want or need is relatively simple software from a computational perspective. For the money, free Google software is premium in most situations.

Tom

 

[RONWEN]

There are many reasons why people prefer different things, Ron, and I respect your preferences.

If I remember correctly, SolidWorks uses the ParaSolids engine also and was started by some coders that left PTC with the money they got at the IPO.

There is a difference if you are solving problems like complex, double enveloping involutes for small physical volume, high strength gears or even complex surface solutions that intersect.

If I were doing plant layout or architectural work, the ParaSolids engine would be perfectly adequate and I might reach for it. A long time ago, Computervision had some cool software for plant layout, including piping, structural, etc. that was pretty good. When they launched it, the computing power of even very sophisticated engineering departments wasn't there. The refresh rates were punishing and rendering took a day or more.

What most woodworkers want or need is relatively simple software from a computational perspective. For the money, free Google software is premium in most situations.

Tom

Pro/E was superior for modeling for finite element analysis but for ~90% routine engineering we were happier with other tools.

You are bringing back memories, we started with the computer assist languages like APT and UniAPT, then came Control Data (remember them?  [smile]) and Computervision.  Kinda makes you wonder where we'll be in say 50 years...  [eek]

 

[tbellemare]

You are bringing back memories, we started with the computer assist languages like APT and UniAPT, then came Control Data (remember them?

'You bet... I still like to use derivations of my first Control Data randomly generated password.

Tom

 

[cgmojoco]

Solid works here. Much easier to learn from AutoCAD.
Trying to learn Revit for remodeling/additions and the like.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

My first CADD system was called GenericCADD back in the DOS days. It was so good, that if left unfettered, it could have wiped out the still fledgling AutoCad at the time. It so deeply scared the slightly larger AutoDesk company, that they bought them out and squelched the software, and instead launched the first version of AutoCad LT on the pretense it would replace Generic CADD.

The original software designers were so upset with this move, that they all left the company and recreated the software under the name VisualCADD. Even into the late 1990's, it still gave AutoCad a run for its money for 2D drafting (AutoCad Mechanical Desktop was just coming out). It never made the transition to 3D, and that is what eventually killed it. The best it could do was 2D isometric drawings before it died.

It was so good, that I still used it just a month ago to do some complex 2D computations. I would actually still use it more often, but I can't find the original CD to permanently install it, and have to limp along from a backup copy that can't be installed.

======================================================

Like Ron, my primary software these days is SolidWorks. No. It is not free like Sketchup, but the thread wasn't about free software. It was about AutoCad, which also isn't free or cheap.

Wow! I haven't used AutoCad in over a decade, but I just watched a couple of tutorial videos on it. I am surprised to see that it is still based on the same technology that it used 20 years ago. That's pretty surprising. I would have thought it was more up to date by now.

======================================================

SolidWorks is definitely overkill for a typical woodworker, but I have used it many times for creating complex designs. Probably the biggest waste of design power was creating a 3D model of my neighbor's fireplace cabinets that I helped them build, but it did give them the ability to see a true rendition of what they were going to have and convinced them that some of the cautions I was pointing out would have been problems in real life. It was actually a complex model, because I had to first create a model of the house framing (with an angled soffit) in order to model the complex overlapping cabinetry.

[attachthumb=#1]

Then of course is my expanding dining room table. This couldn't have been constructed without using SolidWorks. Not at all. That design was so complex that I still have people emailing me how I did it.

[attachthumb=#2]

But not everything I design is woodworking related, at least not made from wood. Of course there are the Domino Guides that I manufacture, and a few other projects in the works. However, I also do mechanical design too. The video below is an exploded view of a rear differential carrier I designed a couple months ago for a super-car that will do 194 miles per hour off the showroom floor. The OEM differential disintegrates when you tweak the engines to 1200 horsepower. So this is an improved, stronger design. It only took about a week and a half to go from inception to final shop drawings. I created this animated exploded view just 24 hours after inception, so my client could see how it looked so far.

 

[RONWEN]

Great work on the differential Rick! You should post the custom engine headers that you did with SW -- very nice.  [thumbs up]
SW makes assemblies and exploded assembles almost fun, I did quite a few for a company that manufactures air boat transmissions.

 

[markorjack]

I use Vectorworks and very limited Rhino, with a little bit of Sketchup thrown in.

I also use Vectric's V Carve Pro for my CNC drawings, but am considering an upgrade to Aspire.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Great work on the differential Rick! You should post the custom engine headers that you did with SW -- very nice.   [thumbs up]
SW makes assemblies and exploded assembles almost fun, I did quite a few for a company that manufactures air boat transmissions.

Thanks Ron. I would post more, but I have to be careful. My client's customers don't know that I am the one creating these designs. Based on what I just read earlier today on a car forum, they are taking notice on how quickly he is coming out with new innovative products, so I have to be careful to not reveal that it is the result of finding me and my engineering abilities in SolidWorks.

He uses the same machine shop that both you and I use. That's how we met.

Regarding the turbo header you mentioned, this is a picture I took when the plastic prototype arrived...... [big grin] [big grin]

[attachimg=#]

 

[RONWEN]

Whoops, it's been awhile since I've seen the pictures -- I was thinking "headers".  [embarassed]

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Whoops, it's been awhile since I've seen the pictures -- I was thinking "headers".   [embarassed]

Well, there is the intake manifold for that same engine, but because it is already in the aluminum casting stage, I didn't want to show it. It would be too recognizable with a Google image search.

Oh, I was also working on a "header" version of the same exhaust, but the curves were too complex for casting. Same engine, but just simplified. The engine bay is very cramped, so anything needs to be crammed in a tight space.

 

[rrmccabe]

My first CADD system was called GenericCADD back in the DOS days.

That is where I started using CAD.  AutoDesk owned them at the time and I was unaware of the history. In my opinion it would run circles around AutoCAD.

When I started using AutoCAD it was a challenge as everything was backwards to me. I am pretty proficient at it from a design standpoint but my layer, block, etc methods are pretty unorthodox by normal standards. I am more a design guy.

I never did make the step to 3D until sketchup. Now that I benefit 3D I should try to go back and tackle it again.

 

[RONWEN]

My first CADD system was called GenericCADD back in the DOS days.

That is where I started using CAD.  AutoDesk owned them at the time and I was unaware of the history. In my opinion it would run circles around AutoCAD.

When I started using AutoCAD it was a challenge as everything was backwards to me. I am pretty proficient at it from a design standpoint but my layer, block, etc methods are pretty unorthodox by normal standards. I am more a design guy.

I never did make the step to 3D until sketchup. Now that I benefit 3D I should try to go back and tackle it again.

Solid modeling will set you free!  [cool]

 

[peter halle]

I also started with Generic Cadd.  I still have it on my XP machine.  I am pretty sure that somewhere I still have the disks.  I much prefer the 2 character commands.

Peter

 

[rrmccabe]

Truth be known..

For about 5 years I had a custom PGP file with GenericCADD two character commands in it.

Their commands (and the "nesting") was a much better system.

To this day I have toolbars turned off and still use keystroke commands for everything.

 

[Corwin]

I attended a training course on AutoCAD late in 1984 and ordered the software along an IBM PC AT, but due to hard drive failures the arrival of the PC (with installed software) was delayed until early in '85.  It wasn't too many months when they upgraded to their first version with 3D, but after spending $2,500 on the version I ordered, I didn't want to spend the additional $500 for the upgrade.  I shifted from CAD to coding business software two years later and hadn't worked with design software until I found SketchUP several years ago.  What a difference. 

 

[bellchippy]

I did a course in the 90s and bought the student edition, but that no longer works. The cost of new software for the occasional user is prohibitive. From my point of view I thought it was the best, and would love to be in a position to use it again.