How would you make this joint with Dominos ??

[art stratemeyer]

Hi gang,

Just curious how you would make this joint with Dominos.

The the stretchers are cut at a 3.5 degree angle.

In a mock up, what I did was cut the stretchers to length, but left square.
Used the "medium" width opening when cutting the mortices in both the stretchers and the legs
Took about 1/4" off the length of the dominos
Then trimmed the ends of the stetchers to the 3.5 degress
There was enough "slop" in the loose mortices to allow the dominos to "cant" when pulling together.

Seems ok in prototype but not sure if I'm sacrificing potential strength.

 

[Toller]

Maybe I am dim, but I don't see why you have to do anything out of the ordinary.

 

[art stratemeyer]

Since the face of the stretchers is at 3.5 deg  .. if that is used as the reference and a normal mortice is put in the legs, the domino will be cocked

 

[woodshopdemos]

Art,
  I suggest having built the prototype, you are way ahead at getting the correct answer than me or others here.  The only area I question is "need to cut 1/4" off the Dominos." But, again, if you found this necessary to make it work in the prototype, that is your answer. This whole reply is not to be snide in any way but to applaud you for doing a prototype...that is what they are for.

 

[art stratemeyer]

Hi John ... chuckle .. no snideness even considered ..... I'm wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too old and have been bit wayyyyyy too many times not to build a full sized prototype on new stuff.

Actually the 1/4" shortening was a swag guess just wanted to insure the domino did not bottom out early when "cocked".

 

[Eli]

Since the face of the stretchers is at 3.5 deg  .. if that is used as the reference and a normal mortice is put in the legs, the domino will be cocked

Would it fit that way, without the haircut? Even tho it's square in the side of the leg, maybe the slot is wide enough in the stretcher to accomodate cant? Would be just as strong, and save a step if you're making a few. Alternatively you could plunge through a wedge into the stretcher, to match the leg angle. Like John said, seems like you're ahead of us, and it's just fine the way you did it.

 

[clintholeman]

Art-

I think the Dominos would fit even without the shave.  Especially if you use the wider setting for the mortises.  I've made a couple of joints like this and it fit just fine.  That being said, you obviously know what you're doing if you're making prototypes [the 7 P's of life] 

Did you try the mortise without the trim?

 

[ryansmythe]

Marc does a similar sort of step stool in this video with the domino.

www.thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-20-a-small-step/

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Does anyone know what video player software works with WoodWhisperer's posts?  My PC equipped with VISTA doesn't recognize it.  I have no problem with most of the links posted on FOG.

Dave R.

 

[art stratemeyer]

I just LOVE Sketchup ..... it proved out what I was thinking

Here's what I did ... on the leg I mortised with the tight setting

On the stretcher I morticed the flat end with the mid setting
Then I made the 3.5 deg cut

The enclosed pics show what's happening with the domino.
As you can see a bit needs to be trimmed from the end. I had guessed about 1/4" but really only about 1/8" needs to be trimmed.

PS .........

Dave ... the file format is in MP4 and he's using a non standard codec ... it can be viewed with the Quicktime player

 

[chrisrosenb]

I must be missing something. Cutting this joint is no different than a 90 degree joint. If the angle is cut on the stretcher before the domino joint is cut. The joint will be at the proper angle if the Domino is regestered off of the angled end.  The joint cut into the leg will be a 90 degrees to the edge. The joint cut in the stretcher will be at 90 degrees to the angled end cut. You would be able to cut both sides of the joint at the smallest width. Or am I missing something?

 

[Tezzer]

Im with Chris ??? What is the issue. It is a straight forward plunge on both faces

 

[eweber]

Same here, I must be missing something. I would plunge after making the cut.

 

[woodwrights_corner]

Mr. Stratemeyer,

I visited your website.  With your experience and proven abilities, your gut instinct is the way to go.  I would like to ask one question, though.  What would the optimum placement of the mortise and tenon have been before the introduction of the Domino?

 

[Toller]

Here's what I did ... on the leg I mortised with the tight setting

On the stretcher I morticed the flat end with the mid setting
Then I made the 3.5 deg cut

The enclosed pics show what's happening with the domino.
As you can see a bit needs to be trimmed from the end. I had guessed about 1/4" but really only about 1/8" needs to be trimmed.

Okay, I didn't understand that you cut the slot before cutting the stretcher.

But why didn't you just cut the slot AFTER cutting the stretcher?!

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Folks have been doing this with floating tenons for a long time before dominoes.  Like everything else, there are lots of ways to skin the cat.  What I do is to cut the mortises while the pieces are still square (to ensure a consistent 90 degree angle on both pieces).  Taper the leg.  Place the legs over the aprons and stretchers and mark the taper on the stretcher.  Cut the taper on the stretcher.  Now measure the depth of the combined mortises (top and top or bottom and bottom).  Cut the tenon/domino to that length minus a bit to allow for extra glue.

 

[Dave Rudy]

Does anyone know what video player software works with WoodWhisperer's posts?  My PC equipped with VISTA doesn't recognize it.  I have no problem with most of the links posted on FOG.

Dave R.

Dave,  I had a problem a while ago with a download from the wood whisperer.  I asked Marc about it and he suggested I go to his website -- woodwhisperer.com -- and watch the video from there.  Worked fine.  Try that if all else fails.

Dave

 

[Cary Swoveland]

Maybe I am dim, but I don't see why you have to do anything out of the ordinary.

I agree.  You want to cut mortises that are parallel with the top of the stringer.  Lay the Domino's fence on top of the vertical piece, push the face against the edge where the face and top meet, and plunge.  (There will be a gap below the mortise, between the vertical piece and the bottom of the Domion's face.)  Do the same with the stringer, except the bottom edge of the face will be against the end of the stringer and there will be a gap above the mortise.  You will have to plunge deeper than required for the Domino size (if that is possible) or shorten the dominos.

If you feel uncomfortable with the gap, cut the mortises through a 3-degree shim.

By the way, how big is that gap?  It would be about 5% of the height of the stringer (h*tan(3)).  That is also slightly less than the amount the Dominos would have to be shortened.

Cary

 

[Toller]

Maybe I am dim, but I don't see why you have to do anything out of the ordinary.

I agree.  You want to cut mortises that are parallel with the top of the stringer. 

Okay, now that we have established I am dim...
Why do you want the mortises parallel with the top of the stringer?
I am new to the Domino and floating tenons, but have put in plenty of dowels and always put them perpendicular to the face.  I would do that with the dominos also.  Of course, you couldn't put dowels in any other way; but they have never failed, so don't see why dominos would.

 

[art stratemeyer]

Even after all these years of making shavings, it's always interesting to see other's views on things like this.

Someone ask "how would I do it with the Domino" ? ... Quite simply the way I learned in my apprenticeship in Germany, over 30 years ago, to a master cabinet maker ( got the journeyman certification but had return to the US 6 months before getting the "masters".

The way I would do it now in my one off pieces where I charge for full hand work it is quite simple.  I would create the tenon on the stretcher by cutting angled cheeks that result in a tenon coming out parallel to the top edge and cut the associated mortice with a 3.5 degree slant.  For decades I did this by hand and then started using a mortiser that I would simply tilt to the 3.5 deg.

I purchased the Domino for those instances where clients don't want to pay for full hand work. I've had it a while and only recently started playing around with it.  The current commission if for 15 multiples of a piece with a cost concern.  So I said .. let's try this new fangled machine.  I wanted to find something easily replicable for my apprentice to learn on.  Since "square to square" is without a doubt the best way to easily use any machine, if possible, I came up with the idea I listed above and it seems to work fine and is fast.

Just for the heck of it, I had my apprentice make it the "old" way ( I still insist on hand skill technique ).  Needless to say it took wayyyyy longer.  We tested the strength ( totally non-scientifically ) and found the domino joint to be just fine.  It did fail before the hand made one but the pressure needed made it almost academic.

However, I'm always looking for input ..... as I learned about 20 years ago during a study session with George Nakashima ... he said "Man's greatest ideas never entered his brain through his mouth" !!