Was hoping someone can give me some insight into a sanding issue I'm having. I have the Rotex 125 sander (love it) and have had what I thought was a cry baby painter complain about orbital scratches in my finish product. He finishes most of what I build because we both sub from the same builder. I sorta wrote it off to him being lazy but after examining my work, this thing is leaving those nasty circle scratches all over the place. I use Festool Rubin sand paper and have used an assortment of different grits. I typically finish with 100. Is this the nature of this sander because I have never had this problem with any other sander I have owned. He asked me to finish sand this huge closet system I built which was nearly 40' lineal feet of built in adjustable shelving, drawers, doors, etc. That's a ton of sanding that I would like to avoid next time. Should I just purchase the 1/2 sheet sander and be done with it?? Sorta having a Festool itch that needs to be scratched, ya know.
I need a finish sander...
- Thread starter Jeff2413
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Sparktrician
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I'd suggest that you get some Granat (my favorite) or Brilliant for the RO125 in grits from 120 through 320 and see how much smoother your end product is in contrast to Rubin. I rather suspect that you'll see a marked improvement. If you truly need another sander, the RTS400 and ETS125 are delightful. Should you choose the ETS125, it shares the same paper as the RO125.
[smile]
[smile]
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If I were in you position I would also experiment with before going out and buying a new sander:
1. Making sure that you clean off the surfaces before switching to a finer grit,
2. Dialing down the suction on your dust extractor a little bit, and
3. Slow down your sanding movement
I typically end at a finer grit than you seem to. I will stop at 150 or 180 for painted surfaces.
Keep us informed of what you try and how it works.
Peter
1. Making sure that you clean off the surfaces before switching to a finer grit,
2. Dialing down the suction on your dust extractor a little bit, and
3. Slow down your sanding movement
I typically end at a finer grit than you seem to. I will stop at 150 or 180 for painted surfaces.
Keep us informed of what you try and how it works.
Peter
AlexThePalex
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Jeff2413 said:
It's not the sander's fault, Rubin 100 is too rough to get a good finish. After you've sanded with Rubin 100 use Brilliant or Granat 120 to 180 to get a good finish.
If you want to add a nice finish sander then DTS400, ETS125 or ETS150 are good choices. I wouldn't add the RS200 1/2 sheet sander unless you're sanding table tops all day.
Ken Nagrod
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I'll also agree that stopping at 100 grit is a problem. 180 is much better, but a lot depends on what finish you or someone else will be putting on and the finish manufacturer's recommended grit. Also adding an ETS 125 if wanting to only buy the same size paper as your Rotex, would be better for the final sanding.
sancho57
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What the other guys said.
They just about covered it.
For some reason I have to go to a finer grit with my festools then I did with my Bosch. So if your used to going to 100 grit I would got to 120-150-180.
If your using a CT turn the suction down. It helps quite a bit to.
Oh and like what others have said, Id change the type of paper to.
I use Granat for almost all my finishing
They just about covered it.
For some reason I have to go to a finer grit with my festools then I did with my Bosch. So if your used to going to 100 grit I would got to 120-150-180.
If your using a CT turn the suction down. It helps quite a bit to.
Oh and like what others have said, Id change the type of paper to.
I use Granat for almost all my finishing
Ken Nagrod
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Jeff2413 said:
Careful! It might get pretty heavy. [big grin] [tongue]
I use Rubin on bare wood to 180 usually and it works just fine. Just sayin'. Granat is great, but not your only choice.
Timtool
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Just a question, are you using the RO 125 in "rough" mode occasionally or systematically? The rough mode will leave scratches that you need to remove totally in the "fine" mode before switching grits/sanders.
And obviously as the others suggested 100 grit is too rough for any finish, but your finisher should have felt that the surface was rough.
And personally going from the fact that i suppose you mostly build with new planed wood, and not old painted wood, i believe the RO125 to be counterproductive for you, you could be way better off with an ETS150/5 which IMO is does almost anything faster, smoother and easier than a RO125 ever could. I had an RO125 and it was inferior at pretty much any task compared to my Bosch 125mm Random orbital sander. Sold both for an ETS150/5
And obviously as the others suggested 100 grit is too rough for any finish, but your finisher should have felt that the surface was rough.
And personally going from the fact that i suppose you mostly build with new planed wood, and not old painted wood, i believe the RO125 to be counterproductive for you, you could be way better off with an ETS150/5 which IMO is does almost anything faster, smoother and easier than a RO125 ever could. I had an RO125 and it was inferior at pretty much any task compared to my Bosch 125mm Random orbital sander. Sold both for an ETS150/5
Lol. Granite. Duh. Would be a tad heavy. I'm gonna just pick up some smalls packs and play. Let ya know how and what works. Can't decide on the new tool tho. I have the Kapex, TS55 and rails. The jig saw. Sander. CT26. 36 and 27mm hoses. Some clamps. Systainer for all my screws. Was thinking about the finish sander or Domino. Although my neighbor has one I use whenever I like. Considering another vac cause I get sick of pulling it off the Kapex every time I wanna sand or track saw something. Any ideas? I think the hole jig might be pretty handy??
Jeff2413 said:
If you are skipping from 100 to 220 then that will be a problem. You need something in between if you plan on going that far... otherwise it will take a lot longer.
Also, as others pointed out, make sure the dust extractor is dialed down somewhat - excess suction will cause the sander to dig into the work and leave marks like that. Also if you are pushing down too hard on the sander; let gravity do that job.
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Yeah, go tot at least 150 even for paint. The Rotex was in random orbit , right? I know a lot of people love Granat, and I like it for some things too, but I don't like it for everything. I still like Rubin or Brilliant better on bare wood. And I did not like Granat on bare wood especially in 150 grit.
Lots of opinions and preferences on abrasives. But the concensus seems to be going finer than 100gr.
Seth
Lots of opinions and preferences on abrasives. But the concensus seems to be going finer than 100gr.
Seth
Jeff2413 said:
As others have stated, 100 is way to course to be considered finish sanding. I work in a commercial fixture and almost everything we do that needs to be finished is sanded to 150, even stuff that is painted. 100 is what I use to remove mill marks from machining, then 120 or 150, porous woods like oak get 120 like oak and 150 for non porous woods like maple and cherry. If you want a finish sander I would strongly suggest the mirka ceros. It is really light aside from the transformer and performs better than any pneumatic finish sander that I have used and another plus, it comes in a systainer.
Yep, go with finer than 100 grit. 150-180 for painted surfaces would be where I would go and higher if other finishes. I have had good luck with all of the papers -- Granat, Rubin and Brilliant 2 and have switched most of my paper to Granat. Eagerly waiting for the new Rubin 2 to come out and will give that a try...the current Rubin leaves a great finish, but it does not last that long. The Granat lasts the longest of any of the papers in my opinion and I have had no issues with it on bare wood. Also, make sure you are not moving the sander too quickly over the surface as that can lead to pigtails. I will typically sand 1-2 inches per second or so, maybe a little faster, but it should be slow and steady and let the weight of the sander and paper do the work -- no need to bare down on the tool at all. I will go vertically across the board one side to the other and then horizontally across the board one side to the other to ensure I get all of the spots evenly. Then switch to a higher grit and do it again.
Scot
Scot
Kevin Stricker
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If you are using new wood why even start at 100? I agree with Tim, the RO125 is a refinishing sander and will never give you as good of a finish as one of many other options out there. Back to the paper, try starting at 150 Rotex then switch to RO mode. Basically the lower you start the longer you sand. Buy a Ceros and you can start and finish most soft wood projects at 180.
Lots of useful info’ in the responses here. Want to add to the mix (appreciating some duplication on my part.)
You say the painter complained about ‘orbital scratches,’ not the grit you finished on; guess he knows what he can work with (after all we don’t know what paint ‘system’ he’s using.)
Presume your time important + cost of abrasives; so you don’t want to do unnecessary work whilst prepping for the painter.
Just curious. Realised unsure as to your work flow. Was the sanding all done before final cutting and assembly? Reason I ask is, that it’s one thing to be sanding everything horizontally – quite another if some sanding done vertically, into corners etc, with closet assembled and in place. In the same sense, is any painting (priming/undercoat maybe) to be done before final cutting/assembly. Don’t really want to get into the pro’s/ con’s of different approaches – only wondering.
As Rubin used, obviously closet made from wood; but what sort of wood? If ‘softish’ maybe consider using a hard pad (if not already).
Totally agree with what Timtool says. Personally, wouldn’t really expect to have to use the ‘course’ mode at all. Would pretty much expect to be able to go straight in at say 120, just as final ‘once-over.’ In this context, you say finished on 100, but not what you started on, or, at what points you used ‘course’ or ‘fine’ mode.
Basically, never start at a lower grit than necessary, and, always use ‘fine’ mode (at the same grit) after ‘course’ sanding – make sure any scratches are really gone at that stage before moving to next higher grit.
Sometimes I get a bit crazy, depending on my mood and the job; will use tack clothe, after brushing down(vacuuming) surface – even between ‘course’ and ‘fine’ sanding at same grit – even sometimes brushing (or vacuuming) the abrasive sheet itself – to ensure no trapped particles affecting the surface.
I routinely only go to 120, (particularly if primer/undercoat being used - paint has a job to do as well), but I understand that some modern paints prefer 150, or even 180. That said, definitely wouldn’t spend time going higher than necessary. Maybe check with the painter?
Regarding abrasives. Lots of good suggestions already given. I will use Rubin on bare wood, but the blasted stuff wears out so quickly. Looking forward to getting people’s impressions of Rubin 2; but I have existing stock to use first. Have been known to work through Saphir grits for that reason. For some reason, like to use Brilliant for final sand.
Got a lot of time for Granat, but primarily on painted/mixed surfaces – doesn’t tickle my fancy regarding wood – especially in lower grits.
LOL. What alternative sander(s) would quench your Festool thirst?
Well, if you really don’t want to go for an RO150, then you’ve covered ‘course’ sanding.
So much depends on what you’ll use it for doesn’t it? Lots of suggestions already given.
For me, the DTS400 is essential - for getting corners etc, with decent dust collection. The attributes of, the ETS150/3 or /5, and ETS125 often discussed – reading between the lines, reckon the ETS150 would suit you better.
But...I love my RS200 ½ sheet. Only prob’ is, the large footprint gets in way sometimes – so for that reason, the RS300 (1/3 sheet) is definitely on my wish list – particularly with long pads being available for it. Seems to me that the 2.4mm orbit really hits a sweet spot. Also, not at all bad for some lower grit sanding.
Suspect I’d really like the DTS400 / RS300 combo for what I do a lot of – backed up with the RS200 for larger flat surfaces.
You say the painter complained about ‘orbital scratches,’ not the grit you finished on; guess he knows what he can work with (after all we don’t know what paint ‘system’ he’s using.)
Presume your time important + cost of abrasives; so you don’t want to do unnecessary work whilst prepping for the painter.
Just curious. Realised unsure as to your work flow. Was the sanding all done before final cutting and assembly? Reason I ask is, that it’s one thing to be sanding everything horizontally – quite another if some sanding done vertically, into corners etc, with closet assembled and in place. In the same sense, is any painting (priming/undercoat maybe) to be done before final cutting/assembly. Don’t really want to get into the pro’s/ con’s of different approaches – only wondering.
As Rubin used, obviously closet made from wood; but what sort of wood? If ‘softish’ maybe consider using a hard pad (if not already).
Totally agree with what Timtool says. Personally, wouldn’t really expect to have to use the ‘course’ mode at all. Would pretty much expect to be able to go straight in at say 120, just as final ‘once-over.’ In this context, you say finished on 100, but not what you started on, or, at what points you used ‘course’ or ‘fine’ mode.
Basically, never start at a lower grit than necessary, and, always use ‘fine’ mode (at the same grit) after ‘course’ sanding – make sure any scratches are really gone at that stage before moving to next higher grit.
Sometimes I get a bit crazy, depending on my mood and the job; will use tack clothe, after brushing down(vacuuming) surface – even between ‘course’ and ‘fine’ sanding at same grit – even sometimes brushing (or vacuuming) the abrasive sheet itself – to ensure no trapped particles affecting the surface.
I routinely only go to 120, (particularly if primer/undercoat being used - paint has a job to do as well), but I understand that some modern paints prefer 150, or even 180. That said, definitely wouldn’t spend time going higher than necessary. Maybe check with the painter?
Regarding abrasives. Lots of good suggestions already given. I will use Rubin on bare wood, but the blasted stuff wears out so quickly. Looking forward to getting people’s impressions of Rubin 2; but I have existing stock to use first. Have been known to work through Saphir grits for that reason. For some reason, like to use Brilliant for final sand.
Got a lot of time for Granat, but primarily on painted/mixed surfaces – doesn’t tickle my fancy regarding wood – especially in lower grits.
LOL. What alternative sander(s) would quench your Festool thirst?
Well, if you really don’t want to go for an RO150, then you’ve covered ‘course’ sanding.
So much depends on what you’ll use it for doesn’t it? Lots of suggestions already given.
For me, the DTS400 is essential - for getting corners etc, with decent dust collection. The attributes of, the ETS150/3 or /5, and ETS125 often discussed – reading between the lines, reckon the ETS150 would suit you better.
But...I love my RS200 ½ sheet. Only prob’ is, the large footprint gets in way sometimes – so for that reason, the RS300 (1/3 sheet) is definitely on my wish list – particularly with long pads being available for it. Seems to me that the 2.4mm orbit really hits a sweet spot. Also, not at all bad for some lower grit sanding.
Suspect I’d really like the DTS400 / RS300 combo for what I do a lot of – backed up with the RS200 for larger flat surfaces.