I'd like input on Contractor Style table saws!!

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi everybody! Graphex just brought up in another thread that Sawstop is getting ready to release their contractor style table saw, and I wanted to get some input on contractor saws in general. Particularly, I'd like to hear about portability, and accuracy. Here's why:

Accuracy: I work as a carpenter specializing in residential remodeling. So, right now I'd primarily use a tablesaw for ripping dimensional lumber, and occasionally process some sheet goods. Ideally I'd use my TS55 for the sheet goods, but I'm sure there will be times when my table saw would be a quicker option. So, anyways, I'd primarily use the saw for more rough carpentry, though I'd LIKE to get into some more cabinetry and furniture work where I'd need more precision. So, how accurate are (GOOD) contractor saws? How big of a leap are you making between, say, a Bosch 4100 bench top saw, a contractors saw, a hybrid saw, and a cabinet saw?

Portability: Again, any table saw I'd buy I'd really like to bring on site. Also, I currently still reside in an apartment, and any house I'll be buying in the near term most likely won't have enough room for storing much. My long term plans involve purchasing a 7'x14' v-nose tandem axle trailer with a ramp in the rear. So, I can either have the saw live in the trailer, or I can store it at home and load it into the trailer when I anticipate needing it. What I'd like to know is, with the mobility kit would I be able to maneuver this saw up a 6' long ramp with a 1.5' rise? My old boss used to bring us his contractor's saw for big jobs, but it took two of use to wrestle the thing in and out of his van. The Sawstop website lists the shipping weight of the saw as 280lbs. Am I dreaming to think that I can wrestle this thing around by myself? Also, will transporting this saw around affect the accuracy very much over time?

So, for the roving, gypsy carpenter who wants a (SAFE!) table saw, is he better off buying a wheeled, bench top style saw such as the Bosch 4100 or Makita 2704 for on-site use, and a hybrid saw for shop use, or could a guy get a contractor's saw to do everything? Thanks so much for your input, I look forward to hearing from you all!

 

[Brice Burrell]

Tom, the bad news is contractors saws really aren't all portable. They are heavy and transport does affect accuracy. My opinion is it would only be useful on the largest of jobs to justify the hassle of transport.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Tom, the bad news is contractors saws really aren't all portable. They are heavy and transport does affect accuracy. My opinion is it would only be useful on the largest of jobs to justify the hassle of transport.

Thanks Brice! Yeah, I figured as much....

How about if we change the question slightly: As a shop saw, would a guy seriously regret the purchase of a contractor style table saw, or can someone get pretty good results if he has the saw properly tuned? Again, I'd use my TS55 for processing sheet goods, the table saw would be more for narrow rips, such as stiles, rails, etc.... I realize that cabinet saws and hybrid saws are manufactured for a reason, and that they are likely more accurate, I guess what I'm wondering is: by HOW MUCH more accurate are they?

 

[Steve Jones]

This is probably going to be an unpopular comment, but I simply do not understand the attraction of the sawstop.

Like any carpenter who is honest about it - (this excludes Norm for a start), I NEVER use my tablesaw with the guard in place, it simply gets in the way of too many operations to be usefull, if someone comes up with a single button - quick release for one I'd consider changing saws to get it. As long as it takes multiple bolts to install and remove - I ain't got time for it.

Now this sawstop idea - I'm sorry, maybe I'm being a fathead (might as well say it first) but my opinion is if you can't trust yourself to keep your fingers out the spinning sharp bits you probably shouldn't be using power tools - if your going to spend hundreds of extra dollars for protection and safety - hire someone who does know where his fingers are at all times to do the work for you

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi Steve! For myself, the attraction to the Sawstop is threefold:
1. Yes, the obvious safety mechanism that stops the blade

2. Riving knife

3. Build quality

It just seems to combine the best elements of a table saw. As far as keeping one's fingers away from the dangerous parts of tools, I'd like to agree with you that you're better off hiring a professional, but I've seen many carpenters at my company injure themselves, and the majority of the more serious injuries have been on table saws. Granted, many of the workers were still pretty green, but almost as many injuries were to guys who have been working with saws for 30+ years. I've only been in carpentry professionally 7 years, so I'm still pretty new to the whole scene, but it's well worth it to me to spend a few extra bucks if it means a safer, more reliable product. That's the reason I bought mt TS55 in the first place. But, for what I do I can't seem to get by without a tablesaw, so if I have to use one I'd like to use the safest one on the market..... Anyways, my two cents 

 

[Frank Pellow]

Brice is correct, they are not very portable.  I have moved a contractor saw around to a few off-site jobs and it's not fun. 

You might consider a so called Worksite Table Saw, such as this Bosch:http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=4100DG-09.  It has a riving knife.  ;D

 

[Brice Burrell]

Tom,

I have a Delta contractor saw, like all saws, once tuned its a pretty nice saw. I decided to buy a contractor saw because I don't have a shop. I needed to get it down in my basement and I don't have the room I'd like to have down there. If you decide to go this rout, I'd recommend cast iron extensions not stamped sheet metal. Of course the stamped sheet metal extensions weigh much less, so when you want to move the saw it will be a little  easier. Definitely put it on wheels, just be aware that pulling the saw on uneven floor can, over time, pull the saw out of alignment.

I'd take a good look at Amazon for good deals on a saw if you don't go with a Sawstop. Once in a while you can get a pretty good deal on Delta contractor saw with cast iron extensions and a decent fence (Biesemeyer).

Steve, most of the guys cutting off fingers on a table saw are the ones that use them a 1000 hours a year or more. These guys know what they are doing, accidents happen. Weigh your exposure to the risk, than consider the price of the tool, what we come up with will be different for each of us. Since Tom will be cutting a lot a framing lumber one person might think it is a waste of money. I don't, I know how dangerous cut framing lumber can be, the chances of kick back is much greater that well dried 4/4" stock. Good luck Tom, let us know what you decide.

 

[sw1211]

I would recommend using something like this, there are different models, to align your blade/fence,http://eagleamerica.com/a-line-it-basic-system/p/400-2008/ , these work well too,http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20591 and add a link belt and you'll be plenty accurate.

 

[Ned]

I would recommend using something like this, there are different models, to align your blade/fence,http://eagleamerica.com/a-line-it-basic-system/p/400-2008/ , these work well too,http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20591 and add a link belt and you'll be plenty accurate.

Agree 100%.

Installing a link belt and replacing the as-cast pulleys with machined ones makes a world of difference in the saw.  Especially if you're a hobbyist and the saw sits for days or weeks between uses--the link belt does not develop kinks.

Here's the manufacturer:  In-Line Industries.

Also check the PALS kits.  You can tune up without this, but it's a lot easier with a kit.

Ned

 

[mysterium]

Tom,

Here's a contractor's that's cheap & local...
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/tls/613250841.html

Or much heavier (and probably long gone at this price!!) And Cheap!!!! And Local!!!
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/tls/609214552.html

jim

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi fellas, thanks so much for the feedback! It sounds like I will be best off with a large bench top saw like the Bosch 4100 or Makita 2704 for on-site use, and then for home/shop use I'll have to decide between Contractor, Hybrid, or Cabinet table saw. Maybe by then Festool will have released the CMS?.....

 

[Per Swenson]

Hi All,

Being both a Sawstop owner an supporter/ firm believer,

the only advantage to a contractor saw is price.

As Brice noted, not portability and space.

As for portability ever since the Festool 55 and 65 came into our hands...
I did something I have sworn never to do.

Sold two bench tops and a contractor saw.

Not for money but space.

Round here you need to walk sideways and suck in yer belly just to

change your mind.

So? Would I purchase a contractor saw today if I was new user?

Yes.  Because this economy is killin me.

Would I buy a Sawstop  again. contractor or cabinet?

I would wait until I had enough liquidity for the cab model.

Per

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi Per, I really appreciate your input! Right now I own the TS55 and have been VERY happy with it. As for the larger table saws go, I don't have a stinging need for one right this second, other than a compulsive need to own one of every kind of tool out there  I think I'll be investing in a trailer before I spring for a larger stationary saw. In the meantime, I'm waiting to see if/when Festool releases the CMS, and in lieu of the CMS I'm going to see what other saws come out in the next two years or so. Hopefully we'll see some of the newer innovations such as riving knives, enhanced blade guards, and (who knows?) maybe a Benchtop Sawstop saw?.........

 

[Brice Burrell]

.......Hopefully we'll see some of the newer innovations such as riving knives, enhanced blade guards, and (who knows?) maybe a Benchtop Sawstop saw?.........

I think we will see much better table saws in the near future, and the idea of a bench top Sawstop is a good one. I bet they are working on it.

Not to get too far off topic, but how are things going for you in Minnesota Tom? We seem to be getting killed here in the east, or maybe its just Per and I.

 

[brandon.nickel]

As long as it took to get the contractor version to market, I think I may be retired by the time they introduce a benchtop model (I'm only 30)...  I wouldn't hold my breath. 

Per, would you really consider the SS cabinet saw to be that much better than the contractor's version?  If so, why?  It's going to cost an extra $2000.  That much cash is hard to justify if you're:
1 - not a professional
2 - can't use it for a tax write-off
3 - have a full line of festools, so you don't need the huge table

I'd appreciate your thoughts as an owner because I've been waiting to see the contractor's version with the firm intent of buying one.

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[Greg_R]

Like any carpenter who is honest about it - (this excludes Norm for a start), I NEVER use my tablesaw with the guard in place, it simply gets in the way of too many operations to be usefull, if someone comes up with a single button - quick release for one I'd consider changing saws to get it.

Biesemeyer has a snap-in, snap-out splitter for cabinet saws.  An option that fits any saw is the micro-jig splitter.  If that's too expensive then a drill bit or piece of metal rod (equal to the blade width) in a zero clearance insert plate also works.  Most of the people that I've seen post about their accidents online are seasoned professionals who had a freak accident occur.  An emergency room visit + lost work time will easily equal thousands of dollars (and that's with insurance).

A benchtop sawstop may not occur because the weight required to house and support the mechanism would make the saw very heavy and not very portable.  However, a lot of accidents occur on the job site so maybe there is a market for a heavier but safer saw (possibly mounted on a good rolling cart, etc.).

 

[nickao]

As long as it took to get the contractor version to market, I think I may be retired by the time they introduce a benchtop model (I'm only 30)...  I wouldn't hold my breath. 

Per, would you really consider the SS cabinet saw to be that much better than the contractor's version?  If so, why?  It's going to cost an extra $2000.  That much cash is hard to justify if you're:
1 - not a professional
2 - can't use it for a tax write-off
3 - have a full line of festools, so you don't need the huge table

I'd appreciate your thoughts as an owner because I've been waiting to see the contractor's version with the firm intent of buying one.

Thanks,
Brandon

Brandon my Sears Craftsman Pro hybrid saw I got on a steal for 699.00 can make any cut just as well as any saw. I upgraded it to 3 hp, added new machined pulleys and a link belt and it can slam rip 2 " hard maple without  missing a beat perfectly to within .001 on either end of a 6 inch rip 6 feet long, before the motor and pulley upgrades. I have the incra fence system.

Get the saw you can afford and buy the best blade money can buy. Then align that saw and fence as perfectly as you can. You can always dress it up a little as time goes by.

Of course if money was no object I would be all over the Saw Stop cabinet saw. Of course it is  better than the contractor version. The cabinet saw  will not make the cuts any better or let you finish your projects any faster then a well tuned contractors saw, though. Just safer and with more finesse'. And a lot of people disagree with the safety of the saw stop. It can make people lose respect for the saw. I do think the Saw Stop is a great machine personally.

My grandpa made stuff I can only  aspire too and he used a Delta saw made in the 1940's. Don't get caught up in the hype. Get to cutting wood and creating stuff.
The money you save going to the contractor saw buys an awful lot of lumber or other tools.

Nickao