Incra Router Table?

[supimeister]

Hey all,

I am chewing on what to do about for my dedicated router table and would love some advice... (if it matters - I have a Bosch 1617 (base only) and MR23 combo)

1) I am convinced the Incra LS17 or 25 is definitely worth adding to my router setup, though I cannot decide between the pro II fence (this combo:
Incra LS25WFNCSYS) and the wonder fence.  Getting the wonder fence now would save $100-150, but I also wouldn’t mind saving the money some if it doesn’t add a ton of functionality - I have heard mixed thoughts on it.

2) what do you guys think about Incra’s router table tops?  Are they quality and durable? I am a young hobbyist and am hoping to have this router table last for a good long bit for me.  I like the idea of a phenolic top (is it worth getting?). 
Then again, I think I would appreciate the added space that the offset Incra tops offer, but I am also a small shop - so, 24x36 vs. 27x43 is a question in my mind.  So, it makes me think: what about making a frankenstein router table of sorts? Lastly, I am also intrigued by the idea of having my router table be the same height at my mft/3 (I have 2 and love them) and have read through the threads a few times on how some of you attach your LS25 (which is awesome).  So, perhaps I just need to build a custom stand?

3) BUT if I go with an Incra top, it seems like I am a frog’s leap away from just going for one of their complete router combos - so, why not get their stand as well?  The cost of the complete combo (with stands) is a no brainer if I decide to do an Incra top... right?

4) What do you guys think about Incra’s CLEANSWEEP? Does it do an amazing job on dust collection? 

5) A router lift is a nice addition but I can hold off on one for now. Any other “must buy” router accessories I may not be thinking of (the JessEm clear guide is on my list)

6) Any ideas on the best places to order Incra from (or holidays) for potential discounts? Or do I just need to keep browsing craiglist in hopes of a find

Thanks!

 

[NuggyBuggy]

I have one of the Incra tables with the LS25 and the stand. 

The Wonderfence has some nice features (adjustable offsets for instance) that I have not used.  It's primary benefit to me is the dust collection port, though sometimes I do wish I could connect my hose on the back of the fence instead of the end.

I bought the General International dust box before the Clean Sweep was available, so I can't comment on the latter. I can't imagine it's any better or any worse than any other box underneath, but it does look much nicer.

However, I will say that I see almost no dust in the dust box, and that is because I also have what I think has to be the single best dust collection product for router tables - the Keen "Dust Router": http://www.keen-products.com/routertables.htm. I was working on machining a custom fitting for underneath the table, much like the one that is available on the Jessem Mast-R-Lift Excel, when I found this product.  I basically bought it simply for the single flexible fitting which you attach to the underside of your router plate, so much of the kit isn't used by me - but it is 100% worth it.  Dust collection is simply incredible with it. I can't see a difference when I do or do not have the dust collection on the Wonder fence hooked up. 

I also have the Incra stand, which frustrates me to no end.  The locking mechanism extends a significant length from the frame, which means you usually place it at the back of your table or risk tripping over it all the time.  But this is a major PITA if you happen to want to be able to push the table against a wall -then getting to the locking pedal is very inconvenient.  I wish the mechanism either didn't extend so far so that it could be mounted at the front of the table, or that there were some easy way to mount standard casters to the legs.

As it is, I am seriously considering ditching the frame and just building my own out of ply and using standard casters.

 

[Birdhunter]

Both Rockler and Woodcraft have frequent sales on router table combo deals.

I just built a router table system using a combo package from Rockler.

My priorities were a large very stable table, great dust collection, precision fence, and miter gauge slots.

I'm extremely pleased with the outcome.

I finished my router table project just before the Festool CMS was announced for the USA. It has much better dust collection than my table, but falls short on the other two criteria. If I had a smaller shop and, especially, if I had to be mobile with my router table, I'd buy the CMS in a minute.

 

[supimeister]

Both Rockler and Woodcraft have frequent sales on router table combo deals.

On router tables in general yes, but I am specifically wondering about incra...

Thanks for the input so far everyone!

 

[mprzybylski]

I'm literally making this same decision right now on everything you're talking about, to a T. I've decided not to get the stand but build my own. I've also at this moment decided to build my own top to the same dimensions as the Incra 27x43 because I can make it stiffer as well as just paying that kind of money for literally a sheet of MDF with a miter track and Formica on it makes me cringe a bit. Plus I also want to add t-track (miter/track combo) which is not an option they have. Lastly I've decided on the 25, the clean sweep box and rings. I already have the incra mast-r-lift 2 so this is the best way forward for me.

 

[supimeister]

Well, if you are in the Twin Cities, make a second top and save me the effort and the difficulty is done with

 

[Brentley]

I the best part of the incra system is the clean sweep rings.  you can have the regular incra table, build a router dust collection box and get the rings and be shocked at how great the dust collection is (with or without the wonder fence).

 

[JayStPeter]

I'm on my fourth generation router table right now.  I'll say a few things.  The Incra stuff is nice.  I would get the beefier wonderfence over the standard, I've actually had problems with their standard fence not being perfectly straight.  It can't take a beating and will bow.  As far as the positioner goes, I don't know the current models.  Get the cheapest of the models that doesn't have a limit on the fine adjustment.  Nothing more annoying than running out of fine adjustment when you're super close.  But, there is limited utility in buying the biggest, longest version.  Also, evaluate your need for the positioner at all.  I find that I often prefer just a quick homemade fence over the complexity of the positioner for most stuff I do.
Also, if you're going to spend that much money on it, don't base your table on the 1617 motor.  It's a little weak.  I love my 1617, but much happier with a bigger motor in the table.  At least have an upgrade plan when you start wanting to hog off more material per pass.  I also found that the burning goes away when a bigger motor can keep up the rpms.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I went through this same problem you did about 6 months ago.  I bought the 24x36 table, Master Lift, PC motor, and the LS 17 super system.  I built the stand instead of buying.  I got the clean sweep rings, and built my own dust collection (clean sweep cabinet).

I built a benchtop that the router table sits on, in an attempt to stop table sag.  Plus, it was an attempt to learn how to do some hand planing and such.

I added dust collection that would go through the Festool vac using some blast gates I got off Lee Valley.  It collects dust fairly well.  It works fairly well for small pieces.  There are some things that it leaves to be desired, like trying to do those jack miters that Brice Burrell has a video for.  The ends of long skinny pieces were tough (those damn thin rips again).  But I'm just a beginner, and it was my first time.

I'm not sure what to advise.  I think I read somewhere that the phenolic tops may sag more.  Oh, the LS 17 on the 24x36 table does not provide much capacity.  Going to the 27x43 table would have worked better, but I'm really concerned about space.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

By the way -- I was in for a big surprise when I mounted the LS 17 to the 24x36 table.  I did not get full range out of it.  In order to do that, I would have had to build an extension to put the LS positioner on.  So much for a 24x36 setup if I wanted full LS range capability. 

I think the LS 17 on the 27x43 may give you closer to full range.

 

[Claimdude]

I built my first router table and used it for 20 years or so. Finally sprung (about 10 years ago) for the Incra LS25, wonder fence, table top, master lift and stand and have never looked back. All items listed are Incra. I also have the big 3 1/2 horse vs PC router.

Jack

 

[supimeister]

I built my first router table and used it for 20 years or so. Finally sprung (about 10 years ago) for the Incra LS25, wonder fence, table top, master lift and stand and have never looked back. All items listed are Incra. I also have the big 3 1/2 horse vs PC router.

Jack

Thanks for the response Jack - I would love to see pics of your setup.

I am a bit disappointed that there are really very few video reviews of many of the top end router tables (at least, I can only find an odd video here or there that are not product advertisements).

I am really intrigued by the idea of the JessEm Mast-R-Lift Excel II Table Package BUT I also read at http://thecarpentryway.blogspot.com/2012/09/tool-review-jessem-mast-r-lift-excel-ii.html that they have an aluminum top en route (perhaps, it was a prototype) - and that intrigues me greatly.

Regardless, I am convinced about the LS17 (or 25) - and with the new Precision Plate, I am thinking about a 24x32 router top (I lean towards a phenolic top and especially that aluminum top) that is the same height at my mft/3 and could use the LS25 on the router table from off of the mft/3, as many of you here have done.

(Sure, at this price, I could go the cms-vl route, but I am disinclined that way for now.)

Anyone have more thoughts?

 

[rljatl]

I don't have room in my very small shop for a dedicated router table.  Something I can hang on the wall or better yet, hang off the end of my to-be-built MFT cart would be ideal.  I just bought one of these.  Should be delivered Monday:

Excalibur 40-070 Cast Iron Top

My plan is to fit the Excalibur table to the end of my MFT/3 using the Excalibur Adjustable Length Steel Support Legs and 8020 Aluminum.  It will be quick to mount and take off.  Then add the Incra Positioner on the MFT with the new Precision Plate.  I'll post pictures once I have it all figured out.

 

[supimeister]

That sounds quite interesting - though the weight of the cast iron might be a bit of a downside?  Regardless, I am happy to watch what you do and learn from your efforts!! I am not planning on getting this table figured out for another month or two - as I need to finish this semester and get to summer, when I can then really get after my ever-growing list of projects!

 

[rljatl]

I was originally going to use phenolic, but it can sag.  The cast iron table is only 16" x 27" and has a big hole in the middle, so I don't think it will weigh too much.  Have even thought of hinging it off the end of the MFT cart similar to the extension wings on Peter Parfitt's cart.

I was thinking that I could store the 17" Incra positioner on one end and hinge the router table off the other end of the MFT cart.

 

[supimeister]

So I am thinking the route I most want to do is add the CMS-VL to my mft/3, use the new precision plate + the LS17 system (and wonder fence), and get the OF1400...

I assume that my bosch 1617 and MR23 don’t work with the CMS, right?  That is a bummer   I think I might sell the 1617, keep the MR23 combo for non-table work and use the OF1400 with the CMS... Apart from crazy cost, any thoughts?

 

[peter halle]

The CMS is designed for the Festool 1010, 1400, and elsewhere the 2200.  To mount another router would require drilling and counter sinking the aluminum for mounting bolts.  Additionally you would need to cobble something together to get the router lift to work.

Peter

 

[rljatl]

I've figured out a simple way to attach the Excalibur router table to my MFT.  Two T-track brackets from Rockler and $12 worth of 1/4" aluminum from eBay should do it.  The Rockler brackets plus 1/4" aluminum bring the router table to less than 1/64 of an inch of dead even with the top of the MFT.  The bracket's work great with the MFT's T-track.  A little filing of the holes in the T-track bracket should make it perfectly level with the MFT top.

Took advantage of the 10% off sale that Incremental Tools is having this week and bought an Incra LS Positioner.

I bought the table and legs separately without a fence or router plate.  I am using an Incra router plate plus the Incra CleanSweep MagnaLock Ring Set for better dust collection.  Works great with my Triton Router.  No lift needed.

Excalibur 40-070 Cast Iron Top  
+
1-1/4" x 2" Multi Track Brackets
+
Aluminum Bar Stock

 

[Billedis]

I purchased the Sommerfeld table about 4 years ago and have never looked back.  I purchased the whole package with the stand and casters.  Prior to that I had the Jointech router system.  Only thing I don't like about the Sommerfeld is the non split fence, but with some strips of the ultra high plastic on the out feed side it works fine.  Check out some of his videos on youtube.  He has the top in a table that you can get plans for on his website as well.  I opted for the 3.5hp triton router and it is a workhorse.

 

[rljatl]

Too bad Sommerfeld does not make an aluminum table that accepts standard router plates.  Without a router plate you pretty much have to leave the router screwed to the table all the time, which defeats the whole idea of having an easily removable stand that can attach quickly to an MFT table.  Using a router table with the MFT facilitates using the Incra LS Positioner, too.  I would also be concerned that leaving the router hanging from underneath the table would distort the aluminum over time, but maybe not if you have been using it for 4 years without a problem.