Jointer and Planer - You get a Re-do, what you going with?

[jordanrossbell]

I currently have the 12 inch Felder HAMMER combo machine. Its nice to have one machine, but god willing i will be building a new standalone work shop in my new house. I have overall felt just OK about this machine. The first one i got from felder I had delivered and paid the 300-400 dollars for a technician to come out and true it up. No matter what machine you have if it isnt set up properly then it doesnt matter. He couldnt get my new machine within spec, so Felder took that machine back and sold me a gently used machine. I still dont feel like he got it where I am super happy with it. No matter what I get snipe on the planer and i get a belly on long boards (thinner at the beginning and end of a board) despite honing my technique. I wont be in a space constraint so it has made me question whether I want to go 2 separate machines.

Downfall i see is cost. I will have more money invested and i will definitely lose space on the jointer. Which is my biggest hesitation. THere is a huge price increase from 8 to 12 inches on a stand alone jointer. I am wondering if you had it all back, you had your entire investment and got a re-do, what separate machines are you going with?

So i would go with an 8 inch jointer and 15 inch or so planer.

 

[derekcohen]

Jordan, you should not get snipe with a machine of this quality. Send it back!

I have a Hammer A3-31, now 10 years old, and never had snipe.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MikeGE]

Jordan, I have the lowest cost SCM jointer/planer (FS 30G), and have never had snipe.

 

[Max Fracas]

I have an A3 J/P, and the only time I’ve had snipe is when I’ve failed to tighten the clamping lever on the planer bed.

 

[jordanrossbell]

Exactly. He can't commission the machine the way it is supposed to work. I have tried to get another technician but he is the only one in my area. I have steered many people away and one didnt listen then called me and told me his machine was all messed up. I dont really know what to do. I am just not talented enough in this to do it myself

 

[TSO_Products]

- where are you / the machine located geographically?

Hans

 

[Crazyraceguy]

"Long boards" is a relative term. How long are you talking about?
Most of the combo machines are a compromise in the first place, so expectations may need to be managed a bit. If that is a frequent task, having separate machines, one being a long-bed jointer, should be the goal.

 

[Aux2496]

The biggest benefit of these combo machines is when you are severely space limited.  The biggest problem is getting them into alignment and -keeping- them in alignment.  No matter what the combo machine, they will always typically drift over time.  You may find yourself having to re-align the jointer beds every 8-12 months.

The alignment posts on the Hammer jointer are extremely close together (about 4").  This makes it more difficult to align and keep in alignment.  The posts on the more expensive Felder AD531 are further away and will have better results, but it's still going to be a fight. 

That being said, a combo jointer/planer is the cheapest way to get a 12-16" jointer.  However, if you have the space and budget to go separate, that is the recommended direction.  The stand alone parallelogram  jointers are usually setup perfectly accurate from the factory and they will usually stay that way forever.  Think about a Powermatic jointer if you can afford one.  The Grizzly 12" jointers start at $5600 if you want a cheaper solution.

Hammer does have a "jointer only" model, but I don't think it's any different than the design on their jointer/planer combo.

 

[RussellS]

That being said, a combo jointer/planer is the cheapest way to get a 12-16" jointer.  However, if you have the space and budget to go separate, that is the recommended direction.

Budget, cost is the important one.  Space is not really a concern.  Cost, the individual machines are 50-75% more expensive.  Google search came up with the following prices.  $6900 delivered for Hammer A3 41 combo.  (I am using the 16" machines because that is what I could get prices for.)  Individual Hammer A3 41 jointer and planer are $4600 plus delivery each.  Lets pretend the delivery is $1000 total for both since its $700 for the combo only.  Maybe with two machines going to same place, delivery is less per machine.  Individual machine prices do not include spiral cutter head.  Combo does include spiral.  So add another $1000 to the individual machine total to get spiral cutters on both.  Price comparison is $6900 for combo Hammer A3 16".  Compared to $11,200 for the individual machines.  $4300 more for individual machines compared to combo.  62% higher.  $4300, 62% more, would make a difference for most people.

Space is not much of a concern.  Because you can place the individual machines so they work in almost the same space as the one combo machine.  Little more room needed, but not really much more.  You need minimum of 6-7-8 feet in and out feed distance for these machines.  You are running a 6 foot, or 7 foot, or maybe 8 foot board through the planer or jointer.  So you need that same length on both the in and out feed sides.  You need maximum of 12 feet, 14 feet, or 16 feet of distance for individual or combo machines.  All of these machines are 2 feet wide.  Plus another 1 foot for you to walk by them after you feed the wood in.  So you need 3 feet of width for any of these machines to use.

So the combo machine needs 3 feet by 16 feet space.  All by itself.  Shove it against the wall and it will work fine.  Now with separates, you could shove the planer against the wall, and put the jointer right next to it.  So 2 feet width for the planer, 2 feet width for the jointer, plus 1 foot for you to walk.  So you need 5 feet wide by 16 feet length for the individual machines.  When planing you have to walk around both machines to get from the infeed to the outfeed side.  More walking for you.  But not that much.  So 3 feet by 16 feet for combo or 5 feet by 16 feet for individual machines.  Yes its more space, but not really that much more.

 

[kevinculle]

I have a DeWalt DW735 13" planer and a Jet JJ6-CSx 6" jointer, I have refitted both with Byrd Shelix heads.  Both provide very accurate and nicely finished surfaces.  It would be nice to have a bit wider jointer, but it isn't an issue very often.  When I have a wide roughsawn slab that won't fit the jointer I break out my long ECE hand plane to get one side flat enough for the planer to finish the job.  YMMV!

 

[luvmytoolz]

I love the design of the Dewalt DW735 but for me the thing that let's it down is it's a brushed motor. I'd buy one in a flash if it had an induction motor.

 

[petar73]

Unless it is high end separates, I would prefer better combo j/p than two hobby machine such as the overrated hammers.

 

[kevinculle]

I love the design of the Dewalt DW735 but for me the thing that let's it down is it's a brushed motor. I'd buy one in a flash if it had an induction motor.

After using it pretty intensively for about 10 years the brushed motor is holding up just fine.  I have also equipped it with a Wixey digital readout which was well worth the $70 it cost me.  The most significant issue for me with the DW735 was the noise level...about 100dB standing alongside it.  A surprise benefit of the Shelix head was dropping that by about 12-14dB to a much more manageable 87dB.  I still wear hearing protection when operating it though.

 

[luvmytoolz]

After using it pretty intensively for about 10 years the brushed motor is holding up just fine.  I have also equipped it with a Wixey digital readout which was well worth the $70 it cost me.  The most significant issue for me with the DW735 was the noise level...about 100dB standing alongside it.  A surprise benefit of the Shelix head was dropping that by about 12-14dB to a much more manageable 87dB.  I still wear hearing protection when operating it though.

Yeah it's the noise that kills it for me. I have a large block but I really don't want to annoy the neighbours with more noise than absolutely necessary, so I rarely use my thickie as it sounds like a jet engine. A DW735 with an induction motor and helical head would be a killer product.

 

[jaguar36]

I would rather keep an 8" jointer and get a much bigger planer.  Having a combo machine seems like a pain in the butt to me.  Having snipe on a planer that expensive is unacceptable.  You paid more for the 'setup' than I did for a DW734 and I don't have any snipe.  If I had the space though I'd go for a 24" planer, it would be such a time saver.  I spent the last week flattening slabs that would have taken a few minutes if I had a big enough planer.

 

[luvmytoolz]

One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up, is that for those with a lack of space, a router sled is a really great way to level especially large slabs easily and at virtually no cost.

 

[squall_line]

After using it pretty intensively for about 10 years the brushed motor is holding up just fine.  I have also equipped it with a Wixey digital readout which was well worth the $70 it cost me.  The most significant issue for me with the DW735 was the noise level...about 100dB standing alongside it.  A surprise benefit of the Shelix head was dropping that by about 12-14dB to a much more manageable 87dB.  I still wear hearing protection when operating it though.

Yeah it's the noise that kills it for me. I have a large block but I really don't want to annoy the neighbours with more noise than absolutely necessary, so I rarely use my thickie as it sounds like a jet engine. A DW735 with an induction motor and helical head would be a killer product.

My neighbor across the street has a 734 or 735.  He's offered to let me use it if I ever need to.  Based on how loud it is in OUR house, with the windows closed, when he uses it in his open garage, I might be willing to go in on a shelix head to benefit both of us if I ever end up using it...

One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up, is that for those with a lack of space, a router sled is a really great way to level especially large slabs easily and at virtually no cost.

Given the price of lumber these days, "virtually no cost" can still be a couple hundred bucks for the table surface and "scrap" wood for the sled if you don't already have a large enough table.  Let alone not having a high-horsepower router to run it.

If all a person has is an OF 1100 or a trim router, a slab-flattening router sled isn't "virtually no cost", even if it's shop made, unfortunately.

 

[woodferret]

...or a trim router, a slab-flattening router sled isn't "virtually no cost", even if it's shop made, unfortunately.

Watching peeps with a home made router sled and a trim (and sometimes even bigger cheap) router and having their bit drop and tear through the expensive wood is heart wrenching.  Those aren't made for sustained use of flattening bits. 

 

[jeh]

Combo machines rarely do both great. Probably could spend a little bit than what you spent for the combo for two lesser machines that would outperform the combo. The ShopSmith was the original combo machine and while it did 5 things switching to one you needed crippled your workflow.

 

[live4ever]

I have 8” and 15” Grizzly machines, both outfitted with Shelix heads.  I like that combo, but it takes up a lot of real estate in my tiny shop, and this makes me lust after a A3-31. 

If space weren’t an issue, I’d be perfectly happy with the two machines I have.