Kapex/ Crown Moulding Question???

[adrtree]

I'll start by saying I'm fairly new to this and I'm not a carpenter. I've been teaching myself how to do some of the trades that I don't know and with no one around here to teach me or who even speaks my language really.

I have been renovating houses and I have been using the miter saw to cut crown by using the bevel setting only. It hasn't caused any problems and comes out great but the work positioning is very awkward and my line of sight is poor with the bevel. Also the fence has to be removed when beveling 45 to the right if the crown isnt flipped upside down. And for short pieces holding the crown up against the fence while facing the beveled blade gets a little creepy.

I set the bevel at 45 and the miter at 0 with the crown standing up against the fence as it would be positioned on the wall/ceiling.

I am not cutting the crown flat on the deck as in with the more complicated bevel + miter method.

I have been reading that you can stand the crown up and "upside down with certain kinds of crown" and then set the saw to a 45 degree miter only with no bevel. The crown I am using is equal 2cm on top and 2cm bottom on the back flats. The front is symmetrical curved top and equally curved on the bottom.
Can you guys tell me if there is any advantage or disadvantage to the way I am doing it or is it simply easier to do it with just a miter???
Is using a bevel cut simply unnecessary in a flat wall, flat ceiling situation??? Am I just doing it a harder way for no reason??

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question I am partially brain damaged and I can't visualize the different + or - of each method but I have been reading on the net and it doesnt look like anyone does it the way I am doing it so I figured I might ask you guys. I dare say the Kapex is a bit more complex than me.

 

[waho6o9]

I cut the crown upside down and backwards.  Others cut the way you describe, whatever works best for you.

 

[mastercabman]

Cutting crown on bevel only? That doesn't sound right.
I cut crown upside down against the fence,and use miter cuts.no bevel.
What you need to do is take your crown flip it upside down.the top part of the crown is on the miter table and the bottom part of the crown is resting on the fence.Think of your miter table is the ceilling and the wall is the fence.Then miter cut the crown.
If you have a 90* wall corner,set the miter on 45*that would be your first cut then cut the other at 45* but the other way.
Don't need to use your bevel setting.just keep it at 0* unless you are dealling with very large crown then you would need to step up to miter/bevel combination with the crown laying flat.

 

[GhostFist]

I cut crown upside-down and backwards 99% of the time, I do not own a Kapex (yet). My question is, is there a simple method to remember the trig involved for cutting larger crown on the flat? No I do not want an app to figure it out for me. Who's got it down pat?

 

[sancho57]

This should give you all the info you need

http://www.garymkatz.com/DVDs/CCM.html

and this one

http://www.garymkatz.com/DVDs/MMS.html

 

[Brandon]

Do yourself a favor and learn to cut crown on the flat. Once you get the angles down it's a far easier and more accurate method, in my opinion. I'm a mainly self taught carpenter/ cabinet maker and never enjoyed cutting crown upright. I find it to difficult to hold at the correct angle consistently and crown stops are just annoying and slow to use. Learning the the 4 different angles most commonly used for the 2 most common spring angles, 45 and 38 degrees doesn't take very long. In the long run you'll be able to cut larger crowns easier and more accuratly with out having to spin the crown upside down and all over the place. Cutting on the flat also eliminates splintering which is crucial for refinished crown moldings. Good luck

 

[mastercabman]

I cut crown upside-down and backwards 99% of the time, I do not own a Kapex (yet). My question is, is there a simple method to remember the trig involved for cutting larger crown on the flat? No I do not want an app to figure it out for me. Who's got it down pat?

A lot of saws has detent on the miter and bevel to cut 52/38 crown on the flat.For a 90* angle.This helps when setting the angle on the saw.You could also get the Bosch miter angle finder.It is an angle finder that can calculate whatever angle it is,it will give you the setting for miter and bevel.
Me,i don't really care to cut on the flat unless i have to.Too much setting to deal with.Upsidedown against the fence is far more quicker and i can make small adjustment by just moving one setting(the miter)or by twisting the crown molding.
And i do like my crown stop!

 

[adrtree]

So in my case where the crown is identical on top and bottom (Norwegian trim ), Then I do not have to flip the crown upside down to use the 45 miter method????  Wow even simpler.

 

[mastercabman]

So in my case where the crown is identical on top and bottom (Norwegian trim ), Then I do not have to flip the crown upside down to use the 45 miter method????  Wow even simpler.

Well be careful,because it might look identical on both side,but make sure that the "spring" angle is 45* if not you need to make sure that you cut all the pieces the same way.
The spring angle is the angle from the wall.Here in NA the most common crown molding is 52*/38*
But whatever angle crown you are using, you still need to cut the crown upside down.Again the bottom of the crown is against the fence and the top of crown is sitting on the miter table.
If you can,post a picture of your crown profile to make sure that we are talking about the same thing.

 

[Jonhilgen]

I don't have a Kapex, but I do install a lit of prefinished crown molding using the nesting method. And since I come across the same molding profiles, I make a jig to hold the crown very much like the crown stops on the Kapex, only better (imho)because you can cut very small pieces safely and accurately.

Jon

 

[builderbob]

I don't have a Kapex, but I do install a lit of prefinished crown molding using the nesting method. And since I come across the same molding profiles, I make a jig to hold the crown very much like the crown stops on the Kapex, only better (imho)because you can cut very small pieces safely and accurately.

Jon

Jon, do you make a new jig every time you install crown or do you adjust the leading edge?  I think I'm going to use a board at the leading edge and implement knobs & t-nuts to run in the Kapex channel instead of the crown stops!  I do a ton of cabinet crown and small pieces are always scary for safe cutting!

 

[Jonhilgen]

Bob,

I only come across two about two crown profiles since the designer I work with gets cabinets from the same company almost 99% of the time.  So I make two of these and store them in the garage until I get to the trim stage of the install and then throw one in the truck.  If I have to adjust the leading edge, it's still pretty easy to do.

I like this way because it's easy to line up my pencil line on small pieces with the back edge of the cut line on the jig (no kapex, no lasers... [mad]), and no matter how hard I bump it, it won't move like a clamped piece on the front edge might.

I like the idea of using t nuts and making it easily adjustable.  And it would take up less space.  Go for it.

Nice pics of your shop by the way.

Jon

 

[builderbob]

Thanks for the shop comments Jon!  I just threw a board across quickly and used the Festool thumb screws from their crown stops!  I feel a lot safer!!!  I'll obviously need to replace the board every now & again...that's why they call it sacrificial!

Bob

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The U.S. Kapex manual has a whole section on cutting crown moulding (pages 20-22), including the normal miter method and the compound miter. It includes a built-in calculator to calculate the miter/bevel settings for non-standard (non-38/52) mouldings.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Kapex_KS120.pdf

As another poster mentioned, I also use the compound miter method when ever possible because it is more accurate.

 

[GhostFist]

Rick, very clear and simple illustrations on doing that, cheers! Sorry if I partially hijacked this thread, signing off.

 

[GhostFist]

Oh ya and i really want a Kapex!

 

[adrtree]

Well I experimented today with the miter and upside down method. The cut comes out exactly the same as it does when I was just using the bevel with no miter and right side up.
The miter method is in fact easier for me.

 

[woodwreck]

I don't have a Kapex, but I do install a lit of prefinished crown molding using the nesting method. And since I come across the same molding profiles, I make a jig to hold the crown very much like the crown stops on the Kapex, only better (imho)because you can cut very small pieces safely and accurately.

Jon

Jon, do you make a new jig every time you install crown or do you adjust the leading edge?  I think I'm going to use a board at the leading edge and implement knobs & t-nuts to run in the Kapex channel instead of the crown stops!  I do a ton of cabinet crown and small pieces are always scary for safe cutting!

Somewhere around here is a video showing the use of a backing of 1/2" plywood - not a jig - that spans the gaps etc., and makes cutting small pieces a whole lot safer.

 

[Kristian]

Thanks for the shop comments Jon!  I just threw a board across quickly and used the Festool thumb screws from their crown stops!  I feel a lot safer!!!  I'll obviously need to replace the board every now & again...that's why they call it sacrificial!

Bob

Bob, a bit off-topic but what kind of lamp is it you have next to the Kapex? I assume it's LED. Does it clamp on to the stand?

- Kristian

 

[builderbob]

@Kristian...sorry for the delayed response. Somehow I missed your post! The lamp that I am using is an LED from Woodcraft. I think I paid $25/$30 for it. It has an option of battery or plug in! It really helps in some dimly lit spaces. The only downside is if you're running the Kapex to your dc, you'll need a different power source for the lamp if you're plugging it in!

It also has a magnetic base that mounts to an adjustable plate...it also comes with the lamp!

Bob