Kapex Database

[Rob in Vancouver]

Does anyone think it would interesting to set up an independent website where any Kapex owner could voluntarily register their kapex serial number, purchase date,  manufacturing date and repair(s) dates for the purposes of calculating failure rates?
We could also allow users to upload photos and/or details of failure or repair. 

We could then compile the data, calculate some statistics and make it public.

Seeing we are not getting any detailed statistics from Festool we may as well compile the data ourselves.

One website where we could set up this database would be onhttps://www.surveymonkey.com

A sample size of a few hundred should provide some insight.  Obviously the more entries the better 

Do you think this would fly---??

Anyone got time to set it up on SurveyMonkey?

 

[AlexThePalex]

It would not work.

Not enough people would participate to make it statistically significant. You'd end up with 10 broken Kapex'es and 2 good ones.

Though a few complaints can create a lot of fuzz on this forum it is by no means a proper representation of the total because we'd be talking about thousands of units for the Kapex alone.

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

Hi [member=5277]Alex[/member]

Thanks for the response, you raise some valid points which I agree with. 
I work with numbers and statistics all day on spreadsheets. 

The only point where I might disagree with you on is the participation rate, I think many kapex owners would participate, just a gut feeling. 

To make this work we would need the sample to be random and (from what I remember from my university stats class) we require a sample size of at least 30.  We would also need to set up the database fields to separate 240v from 120v (not a big deal).

In any case, the data would be far better than what we have now---which is no data.

 

[ajones]

I wonder what you all think re highest volume of sales would it be the kapex or the two domino machines combined?

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

Would there be a way of determining number of units manufactured by looking at the serial number and manufacturing date? 

I assume the serial numbers are easy to figure out once you know the manufacturing date and compare it with a new unit serial number (from a local dealer)

 

[chrisrosenb]

If things are as bad as you believe they are, then you should be telling those that have had problems to file complaints with the proper government agencies. Not setting up some meaningless website.

 

[Kev]

Lets attack the factory with bows and arrows!!!

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Hi [member=5277]Alex[/member]

Thanks for the response, you raise some valid points which I agree with. 
I work with numbers and statistics all day on spreadsheets. 

The only point where I might disagree with you on is the participation rate, I think many kapex owners would participate, just a gut feeling. 

To make this work we would need the sample to be random and (from what I remember from my university stats class) we require a sample size of at least 30.  We would also need to set up the database fields to separate 240v from 120v (not a big deal).

In any case, the data would be far better than what we have now---which is no data.

For the data to be meaningful the electrical specs would have to be more specific since the forum has members outside North America. For the lower voltage saws you would probably want to keep track of whether the saw was being used on 120v 60hz, 110v 50hz, and possibly japanese 100v 50hz or 100v  60hz. For the higher voltage kapex saws similar differences in higher electrical standards would also probably have to be considered.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Lets attack the factory with bows and arrows!!!

Building a trebuchet using Makita or Mafell tools, and flinging burnt out Kapex motors st the factory would probably be more apropriate.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The only point where I might disagree with you on is the participation rate, I think many kapex owners would participate, just a gut feeling. 

Most Kapex owners don't participate on this forum, the group of FOG members is just a very small subset of all Festool owners. Good luck getting all those others to vote in your poll.

By the way, once there was an option to make a poll here on the FOG, mods, is that still working?

 

[peter halle]

The poll function was disabled long ago.

The reasons:

1.  Usage by spammers
2.  The majority of polls started didn't make any sense

Peter

 

[andy5405]

I don't think it would be at all useful as the people with a problem would be far more motivated to post than happy users. Disraeli is reputed to have said something about statistics if I remember correctly.

I think it would be more useful to see how many separate threads have been created about a burnt out motor!

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
If some one can then they probably will.......
However, you need hard data that can be qualified against a sample and as no figures are available and never will be the result will be skewed.
rg
Phil

 

[DrD]

Having a working background in statistics, I would point out a major uncontrolled variable in such a poll - the biased/unbiased nature of each response.  That is, who would respond?  Those not having any kind of issue with their Kapex might have less motivation to respond, or even know they could respond whereas those experiencing issues may have great motivation to respond.
The real answer, based upon factual numbers must come from Festool, as they know total production numbers by model variables, eg voltage, country of use, etc, and the numbers of complaints by those same variables.  Now if one is not comfortable with the "truthfulness" of such statistics coming from Festool, why would you buy from Festool to begin with?
Let me quickly add that although I have some Festoys, I also have many other brands as well, AND I am NO fan their annual (in my opinion unwarranted) price increases - all saying I am not a blinded Festool supporter. However, I feel the data resides with Festool, and they have the ability to share such data with their customer base

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

@DrD

I agree with most your points.

I believe we could determine production numbers by studying the serial numbers, my guess anyways.

Yes,  I agree the sampling method is not perfect.

Keep in mind that if someone were to start this the data set would be better than the data we are getting from Festool right now which as everyone knows is nothing. 

 

[Jamestoolie]

Having a working background in statistics, I would point out a major uncontrolled variable in such a poll - the biased/unbiased nature of each response.  That is, who would respond?  Those not having any kind of issue with their Kapex might have less motivation to respond, or even know they could respond whereas those experiencing issues may have great motivation to respond.
The real answer, based upon factual numbers must come from Festool, as they know total production numbers by model variables, eg voltage, country of use, etc, and the numbers of complaints by those same variables.  Now if one is not comfortable with the "truthfulness" of such statistics coming from Festool, why would you buy from Festool to begin with?
Let me quickly add that although I have some Festoys, I also have many other brands as well, AND I am NO fan their annual (in my opinion unwarranted) price increases - all saying I am not a blinded Festool supporter. However, I feel the data resides with Festool, and they have the ability to share such data with their customer base

I agree any data or poll created by FOG will be missing key data.  An old Kapex poll from 2008 was shared in the other thread.  The poll is missing key information that only Festool USA has.  The poll is really about kapex owners and potential owners.  I have added hypothetical numbers of saws in circulation and saw sold for demonstration purposes only as i have no idea how many saws are in circulation or were sold during the period the poll was open.  Sorry i couldn't figure out the add table function. 

title                       number             Percentage No problems                             48         0.12 Problems form start but fixed       8         0.02 Problems from start not fixed yet       8         0.02 Developed problems but fixed     12         0.03 Develop problems not fixed yet     12         0.03 polled members                             88         0.22 saws in circulation               40000 Waiting till resolved before buying  58         5.31 I've decided not to buy             35         3.20 polled members                             93         8.51 Kapex units sold during poll         1000      91.49 total buyers and non buyers 1093

 

[TomE]

Perhaps Festool should include a 'black box' in the kapex, purposed to diagnose conditions of the unit.

Monitor- trigger pulls, available current and condition of grounding, resistance of cut, internal/external temperatures, particulate dust analysis of material being cut, condition of blade, type of blade, speed of blade before cut resistance, ambient humidity, clamp-on clamp-off, moisture penetration, sobriety of user, cumulative impact forces, general condition of maintenance, low oil monitor, dust accumulation in extractor and the like.

Plug into the Kapex a flash drive, upload data, send data via internet to Festool troubleshooting data base for analysis, receive report of recommended findings, solutions or indications of eminent failure and send in at a timely fashion. Also avail firmware updates to recondition the electronics to user conditions, warn of pending warranty expiration and offer extend warrantee available for fee.

Well tended units receive bonus warranty period and choice of free Festool ball cap, tee shirt or toolie for the registered owner.
Well tended units with eminent failures to receive fixes within allowed bonus warranty period and all three of the aforementioned prizes along with free membership to FOG are awarded to the registered owner.
Less than well tended units receive standard warranty measures, electronic effort made to registered owner informing that someone else must be using the unit.

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
Just to put you at ease and I am sure you expected this - no information would ever be in the public domain.
rg
Phil

 

[TomE]

especially sobriety of user data

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

@Phil Beckley

Your response is very confusing.
Why would it put our mind at ease by having Festool not publish failure statistics on the Kapex?
The reason so many of us have concerns is due to the numerous posts about motor failures.

The only people who's minds get put at ease by not realeasing data is Festool,  not prospective buyers or existing customers.

Unless I completely misread your comment please explain how Festool is putting our mind at ease.