Kapex Kickback

[blackemmons]

I have had my Kapex since July 2012 and have had kickback since that time.  It replaced a DeWalt 12" slider that never kickback.  I love the Kapex but........

Right after I got the saw it kicked back so hard it broke the plastic house on the dust collection housing at the rear of the blade.  I call tech service, explained what happened, sent it to them, they repaired it, sent it back and ....CHARGED ME $65.  The saw was a month old.

It still kicks back today under certain circumstances.  Those mostly being but not all the time...

Hardwood boards.

Usually 5" or wider.

Usually can feel it start to bind in the last couple of inches of the cut.

Some times the boards appear to be perfectly flat or within 1/16 of an inch.

Does not happen on every cut.

Blade was/is OEM.

Blade has been cleaned.

Hold down is used if piece is long enough to reach the hold down

Boards are supported on both ends by 4' of miter station on each side of saw.

I met the Festool rep in Woodcraft a while back and explained the situation to him.  He said he would look into it and get back with me.  After not hearing from him in for three weeks, I sent him and email(I had asked for his business card).  He replied by asking me a few questions, same ones he asked in the Woodcraft store.  Haven't heard from him since.

A person in the Woodcraft store said they thought it may be due to the tooth angle.  I don't have a clue but it scares the hell out of me [eek].

So the question(s) is, has anyone else had the issue and if so, how did you solve it?  Where am I going wrong?

Thanks,
JimE

 

[deepcreek]

Take a straight edge and lay it across the two sections of fence from one side of the blade to the other.  Is it pinched inward?  It should be flat but I have seen them bent.  This will cause the problem you are describing.

 

[peter halle]

First, welcome to the FOG!

Sorry to see you posting for the first time with an issue, but might I suggest that you give the Festool USA service department a call at 800-554-8741. 

Peter

 

[flair woodworks]

On the same vein as deepcreek suggested, if the bed is also concave (dipped in the middle) it could cause kickback as the cut progresses.  It's likely that narrower boards don't have enough force against the blade to cause kickback but wider ones do.

I have no experience with this issue - I'm just applying my logic to the situation.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Right after I got the saw it kicked back so hard it broke the plastic house on the dust collection housing at the rear of the blade.  I call tech service, explained what happened, sent it to them, they repaired it, sent it back and ....CHARGED ME $65.  The saw was a month old.

Kickback is a lottery. It has nothing to do with the state of the saw (good or faulty) or with user error. So it's not a warranty issue. Kickback can happen with any saw at any moment, wether the saw is perfectly good or not. Wether the user takes all precautions or not.

Festool recommends you always clamp down the piece when cutting with the Kapex.

 

[j123j]

Kickback is a lottery. It has nothing to do with the state of the saw (good or faulty) or with user error. So it's not a warranty issue. Kickback can happen with any saw at any moment, wether the saw is perfectly good or not. Wether the user takes all precautions or not.

Eh? What?  [blink]

If the kapex bed is concave and you're making a bevelled cut in a 50x200mm flat board, kickback is a real danger.

My kapex has a concave bed and it has caused real accidents with thick hardwood stock. The stock grabs the blade after the cut and kicksback like a b!atch.
I'm sending mine back for repair, to make the saw bed flat. If they refuse to repair it I will contact the consumer protection agency and make a claim thru them.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Jim,

Sorry that you're having trouble with kickback on your Kapex. Definitely not normal.

I've asked our service department manager to give you a call.

Shane

 

[AlexThePalex]

Kickback is a lottery. It has nothing to do with the state of the saw (good or faulty) or with user error. So it's not a warranty issue. Kickback can happen with any saw at any moment, wether the saw is perfectly good or not. Wether the user takes all precautions or not.

Eh? What?  [blink]

If the kapex bed is concave and you're making a bevelled cut in a 50x200mm flat board, kickback is a real danger.

My kapex has a concave bed and it has caused real accidents with thick hardwood stock. The stock grabs the blade after the cut and kicksback like a b!atch.
I'm sending mine back for repair, to make the saw bed flat. If they refuse to repair it I will contact the consumer protection agency and make a claim thru them.

Nothing what.  [eek] If there is something wrong with the saw, of course the chance of kickback increases. The chance of anything going wrong increases then. But that doesn't mean it can't happen with a saw that's in perfect working order. Because it happens all the time with good saws too.

 

[glass1]

Except the kapex kick backs more than other saws "in my opinion". All the time I spent behind the saw I was always on high alert for kick back. My Makita ls 1216l almost never kick backs. I like many aspects of the Kapex but I am waiting for a redesign.

 

[Holzhacker]

I would say the Kapex is more prone to kickback than other saws for a couple reasons in my experience.
1) because of the way the motor starts up. If you are used to other chopsaws its easy not to wait long enough with the Kapex to get full speed
2) the bed, if Festool does do a redesign I'd like to see far better design and alignment on the bed. My bed hasn't been flat since day one. For what I do it isn't that big a deal and quite frankly packing the thing up an sending it to Indy is way too much of a time sink.
3) laziness, I find myself not locking down the head on wider boards when I really should, you know the routine, chop and push

 

[Jalvis]

I've had similar experiences with the Kapex during the first couple weeks.  I've seen and talked with others who have the same issues with the Kapex. 

In fact during my first week in use the saw would grab the wood and send it into the shroud causing a jamb, which required removing the blade.  Obviously this can only happen with smaller pieces.  Personally I think the Kapex is more of an Installers tool.....Best for trim.  For dimensional tasks with lots of hardwood I think other tools are better suited. 

My only real assessment is the motor not being as powerful as other saws....although Its not as much the motor as it might be the speed control.  I think the saw slows down too much under load and thats when these issues commonly occur.  Just my 2 cents.   

 

[blackemmons]

Kapex Kickbaclk Update................sort of.

I did get a call today from from the service department today as Shane had indicated.  Thanks Shane and Festool.

We discussed procedure.  The same things I discussed with them when it happened the first time and had to be sent back for the repair.  I am currently doing all of the things suggested. 

We also discussed the tool.  Such things as bed, fence and blade.  I would hope they check these things at the time they had if for repairs.

As for the fence, it appears to be straight.  I have an auxiliary wooden fence attached to the Festool fence to minimize tear-out on the back side.

i also have a zero clearance insert in the bed and the bed is as straight as the fence.

it was also suggested that the blade could have an issue, such as a bent/bad tooth.  it is not noticeable and it will cost me $130+ to see if the blade is a factor.  Yuk!

Before I posted this, I did a "search" for Kapex kickback and from the lack of returns, I thought I was the only one with the issue.  From some of the replies, it is comforting to know that I am not alone in this department.

Holzhacker mentioned letting the blade get up to speed.  I do that and also let the blade come to a complete stop before I raise the saw at the end of the cut.

As for the tool, I really like it but as glass1 said, I too am always on high alert and my DeWalt 12" slider(and his Makita) never put this kind of fear in me when making a cut.

Still open to more input.

Thanks,
JimE

 

[deepcreek]

Jim,

For clarification, when you say kickback, do you mean -

1) The blade grabs the whole board and pulls it up off the bed, deep onto the blade, and backwards into the dust port bringing the whole saw to a terrifying, grinding halt as you let go of the trigger and hope you don't have to finish the work day without clean underpants.

- OR -

2) The blade grabs the small cutoff and rockets it straight back into the bevel gauge sending it ricocheting in an unpredictable direction as you contemplate the whole clean underpants thing again.

I have had one incident of item 1 in hundreds if not over a thousand cuts on my Kapex and it was due to my own stupidity.  (Lesson learned.)

I had numerous incidents of item 2 until I learned to add a auxiliary fence when cutting small parts and to always stand on the opposite side of my offcut.

I have had zero incidents of number 1 or number 2 occurring as a result of these scary moments.   [big grin]

Joe

 

[Ta2ude]

If the bed  of the saw is dipping in from the outside edges, or concave it could very easily cause kickback.As the piece you are cutting gets weaker the pressure from the cut could start to push the wood down into the concaveness of the bed which would force the top edges of the board/cut tighter against the blade which could result in kickback. If the bed was convex the top edges of the cut would do the opposite and spread away from the blade resulting in less chance of kickback. The same would hold true for the back fence.

 

[skids]

I have no issue with Kickback and I just cut hundreds of feet of panel molding and cove molding. About the only thing I can agree with in this string, is the fact the Kapex comes up to speed a little slower than most saws. I watched this literally become a problem for someone used to a Hitachi saw on my Kapex. Not a huge issue for me so I don't care, but I am aware of it when I make cuts.

Otherwise this saw doesnt kick anymore than any other saw I have had. Something sounds wrong with yours.

 

[dbworkshop]

Just had a similar issue with mine.  It occurred after replacing the stock blade with another 60T Festool blade. After installing the new blade, I noticed it had a slight wobble. Not a problem when cutting small stock.  I did notice that the cut was not the usual glass smooth I had become accustomed to.  When I switched over to cutting some larger base, it was binding and burning. Bought another new blade and haven't had a problem since.  My dealer took the old faulty blade back.  He stated that this was not the first time he had heard of an issue like this.

Might as well bite the bullet and buy another blade. You'll need it some time down the road.  Worst case, the blade is faulty. Festool will make it right.

 

[blackemmons]

deepcreek,

#1

I have always had an auxiliary fence and ZCI in the bed.

JimE

 

[deepcreek]

That kind of kickback shouldn't be happening without a reason.  It's either user error, highly unstable wood, or something is out of spec with the saw/blade.  It definitely is not a common issue with the Kapex.

 

[Dan1210]

ive found these issues happen to me when im trying to make a quick cut on thicker deeper material, ive found that if you are making repeat cuts using a stop on thicker material you should wait till the blade stops before removing it from the material, generally i trust this saw 100% never had any issues cutting large stock or tiny trim mouldings although when cutting larger stock i find greater caution in setup is required. i had a 12" dewalt 718 before and it scared the hell out of me sometimes got terrible kickback, great for larger material but not for smaller stuff, if your fence and base are good and you are using proper technique and setup it should be a joy to use, love my kapex!

 

[blackemmons]

Dan,

Thanks for the info.

I never had a kickback with my DeWalt, even if cutting cupped or even slightly warped material.

I do wait until the blade gets up to speed before starting a cut and wait for it to stop before after the cut before raising the saw, stop or no stop.

I too, love my kapex .....except..........

JimE