Longer open time adhesive ?

[Steve1]

I normally use Titebond III, but I have a dresser to glue up soon -- basically two side frames with three shelf pieces, total of 28 loose tenons, and the thought of trying to spread the adhesive, align the pieces and setting the clamps, in 10 minutes, is rather intimidating.

I sometimes use PL Premium on wood, but in this case, I expect the material expansion would be a problem for this project.

Lee Valley's Cabinetmaker's glue specifies 15-20 minute open time, but its a PVA glue so I wonder if its really any different than the Titebond.

Maybe I should be using epoxy ?

What do you guys use when you need a little more working time ?

 

[ChuckM]

Epoxy, a little messy for tenons, will work.

I'd use Old Brown Glue, which, however needs to be kept warm during use, and requires at least 12 hours (more for me) to cure.

Alternative: use PVA and a helper.

 

[kevinculle]

I use mostly Titebond III, but when I need either the high strength of longer open time, I use West System G/Flex epoxy and I have had excellent results with it.

 

[Mortiser]

I've used TiteBond Extend Wood Glue (http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/d7c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95 ) for complex glue-ups with good results. Typically Woodcraft has it in stock and I believe Amazon has it.

 

[mrFinpgh]

Old brown glue. Has a long open time and is makes repairs easier.

I stay away from epoxy unless I really need it.

 

[Steve1]

For the guys who use epoxy, what do you do with squeeze-out ?
Do you clean it off right away with mineral spirits or acetone, or do you wait an hour or two to let it stiffen up and then scrape it off ?

Pre-finishing (or at least pre-staining) is very possible on this portion of the build.  So I could apply GF dye-stain first to try to avoid the epoxy squeeze-out effecting how the dye stain is absorbed into the wood.    I'm not sure if the dye-stain would effect adhesion, but I would mask off the glue areas as best I could, before staining.

 

[ChuckM]

In the very few times i used it (for its gap filling feature), I taped off the joint nearby spots.

 

[ChuckM]

Old brown glue. Has a long open time and is makes repairs easier.

I stay away from epoxy unless I really need it.

Clean-up is easy, too. Mostly water.

 

[VirTERM]

I normally use Titebond III, but I have a dresser to glue up soon -- basically two side frames with three shelf pieces, total of 28 loose tenons, and the thought of trying to spread the adhesive, align the pieces and setting the clamps, in 10 minutes, is rather intimidating.

I sometimes use PL Premium on wood, but in this case, I expect the material expansion would be a problem for this project.

Lee Valley's Cabinetmaker's glue specifies 15-20 minute open time, but its a PVA glue so I wonder if its really any different than the Titebond.

Maybe I should be using epoxy ?

What do you guys use when you need a little more working time ?

From my experience, LeeValley’s Cabinet Maker glue gives you extra 5-7 minutes. I actually prefer it over Tidebond III except for outside furniture or cutting boards.

 

[ryanjg117]

This might be the same as "old brown glue," but... hide glue. For interior projects only.

 

[Cheese]

For any construction project involving lengthy glueing issues I'll break down the task list into short sustainable tasks. So if there are 28 Dominos that need to be glued in, do they all need to be glued in at the same time or can it be a staged glue-up that can be completed in 2, 3 or 4 stages?

Sure it takes more time but the frustration level is severely diminished and the possibility of a screw-up is practically eliminated.

So, if I had 28 tenons to glue, I'd take a look at only gluing 14 or FEWER of them at the same time. Just break it down into practical fabrication steps that can be handled by a single person over a short duration of time.

If this is a production problem, then that's another issue...wherein you just need to pony-up and spend the $$$ that are required to attain the production efficiency that you desire.

 

[Vtshopdog]

Plus one for Cheese’s suggestion.

For many of my loudspeaker cabinet builds I dry fit most of the panels with Dominos to aid alignment and glue whatever joint(s) makes sense in sequence.  They can be like jigsaw puzzles with boxes inside boxes, braces and baffles etc.
Lot of put it together and take it apart, slows things down quite a bit but lowers stress.

Have also had good luck with TB extended open.

 

[hdv]

For projects that need more assembly time I like to use Cascamite. There was a period where the producer (Polyvine) had severe trouble with the quality of this product, but I haven't had any trouble anymore with it for a few years now. It is dependable, easy to mix, easy to apply, has a long open time, and has a very long shelf time if not mixed yet.

Seehttps://polyvine.com/index.php/en/products/adhesives/cascamite

 

[Steve1]

So if there are 28 Dominos that need to be glued in, do they all need to be glued in at the same time or can it be a staged glue-up that can be completed in 2, 3 or 4 stages?

Thank you for the response.

I thought of that.
It's a definite possibility.  I could pre-glue all the tenons into the side pieces. Cuts the task basically in half.  I have a bit of play in the slots laterally (long direction).  My concern is that the loose tenons don't end up exactly in the correct position and then I can't align the "shelf" properly (in the long direction).  That would not be the end of the world - do a trial fit and if there is a problem then I would have to figure out which loose tenon was hindering final alignment and shave the end of that tenon a bit.  Or, just shave the end of all four tenons on that piece.

 

[Birdhunter]

Have you done a dry fit to practice the sequence?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have used several different glues/methods. I just depends on the actual project. Old Brown Glue (Hide glue) is rather loose/runny, that is not ideal in some situations. It does cleanup very well and is reversable with water or steam, but that takes it out of play for outdoor applications.

Epoxy is very versatile, sticks to darn near anything. It's totally waterproof, as long as the things you are gluing can say the same. It is far more of a pain to cleanup though and doesn't look so good on exposed joints like inlays, dovetails, box-joints, etc.

Cascamite is a good alternative too. I have only used it once as a test for some long miterfolding glueups. It worked as I had hoped. The only drawback is that it is a powder that you have to mix for each use, so it's not something you can leave sitting on your bench for everyday things. That's not really any different from epoxy though, only mixed when needed for the bigger jobs.

 

[Packard]

I would add reference to epoxy, to use the slowest cure that seems reasonable when gluing porous items.

A slow cure time allows the Epoxy to flow into the pores and provides a stronger joint. 

This would not apply when gluing non-porous items such as glass or metal or ceramic. But for wood, plywood, mdf, etc., it can improve the joint strength.

 

[Packard]

An old girlfriend was angry with me when she knew I was at home, but did not answer the phone.

I patiently explained that I was in the midst of a glue-up.  She said, “So stop, and answer the damn phone”.

Glue-ups are not sufficient reason to fail to answer the phone.  And mercy to the woodworker who has a glue up in process when the doorbell rings. [eek]

 

[Steve1]

Have you done a dry fit to practice the sequence?

Yes, I have had it together several times.
First time was pretty slow getting all the tenons into the slots.  But I am getting better/faster at it by this point.
On the other hand, I have noticed I will need to add the task of adding a couple of strap clamps to the bonding operation to pull it exactly square.

 

[ChuckM]

Let me slightly revise my recommendation in your case because you may find OBG less convenient to use, which requires a warm source (I use a crockpot for a large job; coffee warmer otherwise).
http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed

No matter what glue is used, a shop helper will greatly reduce the stress of a complex glue-up (just give her or him a minute of training in how to apply glue and how to hold clamps).

Here, Tage Frid got a job done with his helper (his grandson):

[attachimg=1]

I used Lee Valley glue in this angled joinery job because I had a helper:

[attachimg=2]

It would have been a challenge to center the clamping force with such long, heavy clamps single-handedly, not to mention adjusting the clamps to correct out-of-squareness, if any.