Looking for a Cheap Trashy blade for my TS-55

[Dan Clermont]

I have to do about 400 square feet of laminate in a couple of weeks. Last time I did this I trashed my MFT blade and had to get it resharpened. The sharpener told me he has access to blades with a 20mm arbor but has yet to get back to me on a price and avail.

Anyhow, anybody out there been able to use a cheap, trashy blade on the TS-55 for laminate? I could use my jisgsaw or Miter saw but don't want the dust so I'd prefer to use the MFT and TS-55 with CT-22 combo again

Dan Clermont

 

[Tinker]

Dan, Festool has a negative pitch blade.  I use that on such things as plywood, MDF, laminates and anything else I think might be problems.  i don't have the catalogue in front of me, but there is one or two blades listed for each saw that are, I think 5? negatve pitch. 

i learned about negative pitch blades when i was a mason contractor.  Cutting all sorts of lumber impregnated with concrete and nails of all sizes.  i found that, as with so many tools, cheap ain't cheap.  I used my blades til a third or more of the teeth were broken, or gone completely.  It took a whole lot longer for them to fall or break with good blades than with cheap blades.  i have found imbedded hardware with my Festool bits and blades with, so far, no dings anywhere except the metal i hit.

Try a cheapy blade if you can find them in carbide.  i would be interrested to know how it works out.  i suspect you will get much shorter running time.  festool has some wicked hard material in their carbide.  It is also flexible enough it doesn't break with each ding.  Cheaper carbide will snap or chip with colisions into metal or stone.  it may wear down faster in glues and laminates.  I don't know that answer.
Tinker

 

[semenza]

I have to do about 400 square feet of laminate in a couple of weeks. Last time I did this I trashed my MFT blade and had to get it resharpened. The sharpener told me he has access to blades with a 20mm arbor but has yet to get back to me on a price and avail.

Anyhow, anybody out there been able to use a cheap, trashy blade on the TS-55 for laminate? I could use my jisgsaw or Miter saw but don't want the dust so I'd prefer to use the MFT and TS-55 with CT-22 combo again

Dan Clermont

      Are you talking about laminate flooring?  I'd be inclined to just use the good blade and get the job done well and efficiently. How much will the cheap blade really cost?  If you need two or three of them in place of a quality blade? Which certainly could be the case if the job trashed your good blade , how long will a cheapy hold up?

Seth

 

[fcraven]

Anyhow, anybody out there been able to use a cheap, trashy blade on the TS-55 for laminate? I could use my jisgsaw or Miter saw but don't want the dust so I'd prefer to use the MFT and TS-55 with CT-22 combo again

It's a good question, although I would stay away from anything "trashy" as "trashy" tends to cause more problems then it solves. But we are limited by arbor size. For example, there is a special blade available for hardyplank siding(and the like), but not for a 20mm arbor. --not that I'm planing on doing anything with hardyplank any time soon. Of course, it could be that if you (we) use the one of Festool's special blades that the other options that are out there would become unnecessary.

-----
I remember years ago watching some "hick" contractor trimming the edge on some cultured marble. His chosen tool was an old circular saw with the guard wired open. The cutting was done on the customer's front lawn which was turned white with the extreme quantity of dust. Of course Mr. "hick" contractor wasn't wearing a mask, and didn't clean up his mess. (But I digress). I watched with a hint of incredulity, and thought, "wow, this would be so much nicer if he was using one of those "Festo things" (it was still "Festo" at the time).

Today I smile when I look at the faces of contractors who are noticing my "lack" of dust.

 

[John Lloyd]

Can the AT-75 with 8 1/4" blade capacity safely use standard 7 1/4" blades? And similarly for the AT-55 with 6 1/4" blade capacity, using standard 6" blades?

Or would using a smaller diameter blade defeat some safety feature or functional feature of the saw?

(Assumptions: Festool saw's arbor is circular and not some odd geometry; standard blade's arbor hole is easily re-bored to 20 mm; loss of cutting depth is not mission-critical.)

Using a slightly-modified standard blade could open up a lot of lower-cost but still reasonably-performing alternatives. I have 7 1/4" legacy blades incl. diamond, carbide and whatever kryptonite it is that cuts Hardiboard ... and a drill press.

 

[Tinker]

>>>I remember years ago watching some "hick" contractor trimming the edge on some cultured marble. His chosen tool was an old circular saw with the guard wired open. The cutting was done on the customer's front lawn which was turned white with the extreme quantity of dust. Of course Mr. "hick" contractor wasn't wearing a mask, and didn't clean up his mess. (But I digress). I watched with a hint of incredulity, and thought, "wow, this would be so much nicer if he was using one of those "Festo things" (it was still "Festo" at the time).

 

[Dan Clermont]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the input so far.

In the past I have used my good 48 tooth blade. Costs me $17 to sharpen and the sharpener I take it to figures I can get another 5 sharpenings out of that blade.

The problem with using my one and only good blade means I am out of commission for a week while it gets sharpened and to be honest, that is too long right now as I have allot on my plate.

I'd take the blade somewhere else but my German buddy Hans has done a great job so far.

So when you consider he replacement blade is $60 (shipped) and you'll get 5 sharpenings out of it that works out to $17 for the sharpening and $12 for the depreciation on the blade for  a grand total of almost $30.

Now, after I finish this laminated floor it'll probably be awhile before I do anymore laminate as my two tenant suites will be upgraded. On the other hand, I have about 15 sheets of plywood to cut up for a couple of co-workers and their personal projects.

It's fun to be in demand and have projects for your toys. Makes me happy.

The killer with a North American "Trashy" blade is the 20mm arbor. They just don't exist on this side of the pond.

Maybe I'll call Hafele tomorrow and see if they have something. 

Dan Clermont

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  You might as well get the second blade so that you can have them in rotation. You will need another when the first wears out anyway.

Seth
   

 

[Tinker]

i found out loooonnnnngggggg ago that if i need one, i better have two.  If i need two, i better have three.  if i need three, i better have five.

i need one walk behind mower, so i have three.  I need one rider mower, so i have two.  I need two trucks, so i have three.  I need one chainsaw, so i have two and so on.  if there is not a spare sitting in the yard, down ime becomes verrrry expensive.  One day two summers ago, i had all five mowers break down within two days.  I had to rent one for a day just to keep something profitable happening.  I have had three trucks break down in one day (Christmas eve and day, 1966) of snow plowing.  That day, I loaned a driver with truck to the town as they, very early in the storm had three trucks out of commission..

I sort of carry the philosophy over into my WW shop.  I have, at this time, one ATF saw and an ancient Milwaukee i hate to get rid of.  I do still use it upon ocassion.  I will eventually get a TS 55 or 75.  I have several routers, two MFT's, two bandsaws (one inherited) and so on.  I have several blades for each saw.  both circular saws have a good combi blade and a negative pitch blade.  in the case of the old Milwaukee, i must have half a dozen good blades.  that is from the days when I was cutting some clean wood, but mostly cement and nail infested.  I always had many extra blades so i could use the blade to fit the problem.  For my bandsaws, i have several blades for each, several different sizes.

If I never have to use the spare, I suppose it proves to be wasteful, but when time is money, those spares sometimes can pay for themselves in surprising ways.
Tinker

 

[Eli]

Why not 489457?

Buy the right blade for the job, save your other blade. The motor is sealed, the saw is made to cut flooring. Put it on the right speed and get back to worrying about just the job. Enjoy the work.

 

[joiner1970]

Use a throw away hand saw, I dont use good blades on laminate if I can help it I found out years ago that the coating on the boards kills saw blades.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the input so far.

In the past I have used my good 48 tooth blade. Costs me $17 to sharpen and the sharpener I take it to figures I can get another 5 sharpenings out of that blade. ...

So when you consider he replacement blade is $60 (shipped) and you'll get 5 sharpenings out of it that works out to $17 for the sharpening and $12 for the depreciation on the blade for  a grand total of almost $30. ...

The killer with a North American "Trashy" blade is the 20mm arbor. They just don't exist on this side of the pond.

Maybe I'll call Hafele tomorrow and see if they have something.   

Dan Clermont

Dan, there should another alternative  for you - many good sharpening shops (or a machine shop) can accurately enlarge an arbor hole for you.  My oldest tool is a 1974 Shopsmith whose saw arbor requires a 1 1/4" (~30mm) for a 10" blade.  Those were not available except from Shopsmith and they did not offer the range of blades that other actual blade manufacturer's did.  I found it economical to have my local sharpener enlarge the arbor holes on some Freud and Sears blades, especially when those blades were available at sale prices.  I gave him an arbor and to my pleasant surprise, he sized the arbor hole to have less radial tolerance than the Shopsmith factory blades.  These modified blades worked very well for me and I still have some of them.  The cost to enlarge the arbor hole from 5/8" to 1 1/4" was less than the cost of sharpening a carbide toothed blade.

Dave R.

 

[Lou Miller]

For laminate flooring (that is what you're talking about, right?), there's absolutley no need for a good blade unless you are doing inlays or something like that. When laminate is installed correctly, 100% of the cuts are hidden, so why would you need a good blade?

At one time I had 4 crews on the street that did nothing but laminate flooring everyday. We used to just stock up on the absolute cheapest blades we could find and then throw them away when they were done. Laminate will kill your blades rather quickly. We used to buy whatever we could find in the discount racks. Typically, I'd end up getting blades for around $1 a blade back then, and I'd buy all of the ones they had in stock whenever I saw a good price. They cut like crap, but it doesn't matter. I tried to buy good blades (specifically a Freud blade that was made for Laminate flooring) and they were a waste of money. The better blades don't last any longer than the cheapest ones do on laminates. That stuff is so darn hard its going to kill whatever you use on it.

The problem is that I'm not aware of anyone else that makes a blade for the TS saws other than Festool. Maybe Forest, but I'm sure they are right up in terms of cost. Just get the cheapest blade Festool sells and be done with it. There's no need for another 48 tooth blade, that's for sure.

 

[Eli]

I just can't believe that the hassle of enlarging the arbor hole on a trashy blade is a better alternative than just buying a blade made to cut laminate. It isn't just the coating on the boards that kills the blades, it is the boards themselves. They are mineral based. Blade #489457 is the one for the job. It's all good to say use cheap blades if they fit your cheap saw. When you have to start altering cheap blades to fit your expensive saw, you need to go back to step one IMO.
But looking at the top of the thread I see that maybe you're trying to avoid a trip over the border with an edged instrument Dan! Somebody ship the guy a blade, I beg you!

 

[Dan Clermont]

But looking at the top of the thread I see that maybe you're trying to avoid a trip over the border with an edged instrument Dan! Somebody ship the guy a blade, I beg you!

Too late Eli, I am heading across the border next week for a box from Festool.  ;D

Dan C

 

[joiner1970]

Eli,

As far as I know they are not mineral based and it is just the tough coating that dulls the blades.

All the laminate flooring here in the UK is just HDF with a layer of decorated paper or real veneer on some stuff (ie Kahrs Linnea) then the uv resistant coating on the top.

Lou Miller is right just use crap blades or do what I say use a hand saw that way you cut on the down stroke no chipping or use down cut jigsaw blades. The boards are so thin you don't need power tools use a bit of muscle power.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Much of the laminate flooring and "engineered flooring" sold in USA contains alumina particles in the finish.  The wear resistance imparted by the alumina particles enables the manufacturer's to guarantee the finish for 25 years.  Alumina is what is commonly used in many abrasives today.  Thus, cutting such flooring is going to dull blades more rapidly than cutting wood. 

Dave R.

 

[Lou Miller]

Eli,

As far as I know they are not mineral based and it is just the tough coating that dulls the blades.

All the laminate flooring here in the UK is just HDF with a layer of decorated paper or real veneer on some stuff (ie Kahrs Linnea) then the uv resistant coating on the top.

Its been a while since I've done anything with laminates (I wouldn't install that garbage today in an enemy's home for ten times the normal installation price), but what you said is pretty much what it all was when we worked with it. I don't recall anything about it being mineral based. Most of it was a particle board core with a very hard laminate surface back then. I don't know how much its changed in the last 5 years though.

or do what I say use a hand saw that way you cut on the down stroke no chipping or use down cut jigsaw blades. The boards are so thin you don't need power tools use a bit of muscle power.

You must not be installing very large floors of it if you're using a hand saw. It'll dull a steel handsaw a lot faster than it will a carbide blade. We went through about 2 million square feet of it in 3+ years. Man, that would have been a lot handsaws that were trashed. ;D

 

[Eli]

Pergo, for example, is an aluminum oxide coating laminate with a photographic representation of wood on top. You're right that the boards themselves are not mineral. They are 80% wood product and 20% resin. But we're skirting the real question. Is it not better to just get the blade that Festool makes for cutting them? Is it a better alternative to buying less suitable quantities of blades? Cheap blades wear much more quickly than quality ones, so can you really say that you're using heaps of them for the job because of the material? When I have a laminate job, I'm buying a laminate blade. I'd like to hear from someone who has used it.

 

[bruegf]

Eli,

I have one.  I've only used it for cutting particle core Melamine panels.  The particle core cut nicely enough but I got considerably more chipping of the Melamine than I had hoped for.  I think a good part of the Melamine chipping was due to the quality of the particle core as it also chipped some with a new blade on my TS.

Fred