Looking for a good square

[Packard]

We had a toolmaker that worked for us for many years (now retired).  He was only given the simplest tools to build.  He also did carpentry in the building when required.

Our toolroom manager said, "Jose is either a very imprecise tool maker or a very fine carpenter."  His skillset fell in between the two disciplines.

Everyone has a "precision comfort zone".  It is always interesting to find out where you stand on that.

I make very nice cabinets, and my "furniture" is really gussied up cabinet work.  I recognize where my  skill-set is and I try to stay in my zone.

 

[Cheese]

We had a toolmaker that worked for us for many years (now retired).  He was only given the simplest tools to build.  He also did carpentry in the building when required.

Our toolroom manager said, "Jose is either a very imprecise tool maker or a very fine carpenter."  His skillset fell in between the two disciplines.

Maybe Jose wasn't really a tool maker but rather a machinist instead?

I've always differentiated the various disciplines by what tolerance range do they comfortably/reliably work in.

Tool maker/mold maker .0001"-.00001"
Machinist .001"-.0001"
Furniture maker .01"-.001"
Rough carpentry .1"-.01"

Now that's a matrix that will provide plenty of discussion for many days... [popcorn] [popcorn]

 

[BarneyD]

And don't forget pattern makers with their shrink rules, etc. Kind of a dying trade it seems.

Cheers,
Barney

 

[squall_line]

Maybe Jose wasn't really a tool maker but rather a machinist instead?

I've always differentiated the various disciplines by what tolerance range do they comfortably/reliably work in.

Tool maker/mold maker .0001"-.00001"
Machinist .001"-.0001"
Furniture maker .01"-.001"
Rough carpentry .1"-.01"

Now that's a matrix that will provide plenty of discussion for many days... [popcorn] [popcorn]

Methinks there are many a drywaller or cabinet installer who would say that you were overly generous to the final listing on that matrix...  [wink]

 

[Lbob131]

We had a toolmaker that worked for us for many years (now retired).  He was only given the simplest tools to build.  He also did carpentry in the building when required.

Our toolroom manager said, "Jose is either a very imprecise tool maker or a very fine carpenter."  His skillset fell in between the two disciplines.

Maybe Jose wasn't really a tool maker but rather a machinist instead?

I've always differentiated the various disciplines by what tolerance range do they comfortably/reliably work in.

Tool maker/mold maker .0001"-.00001"
Machinist .001"-.0001"
Furniture maker .01"-.001"
Rough carpentry .1"-.01"

Now that's a matrix that will provide plenty of discussion for many days... [popcorn] [popcorn]

I could  never  figure  out  inches  in decimal places.

 

[Birdhunter]

I am just a serious hobby woodworker, but do some highly precise work with exotics. To get the precision I want from my machines, I keep them dust free and tuned using some machinist level tools. The lack of sawdust probably is more important than the precision tuning. But, using the metal working tools is a lot of fun. Manual Starrett micrometers and other of their products are a testimony to really fine workmanship. They feel really good in my hands.

 

[Cheese]

Methinks there are many a drywaller or cabinet installer who would say that you were overly generous to the final listing on that matrix...  [wink]

The rough carpentry tolerance was written during one of my kinder moments... [tongue]

 

[Packard]

We had a toolmaker that worked for us for many years (now retired).  He was only given the simplest tools to build.  He also did carpentry in the building when required.

Our toolroom manager said, "Jose is either a very imprecise tool maker or a very fine carpenter."  His skillset fell in between the two disciplines.

Maybe Jose wasn't really a tool maker but rather a machinist instead?

I've always differentiated the various disciplines by what tolerance range do they comfortably/reliably work in.

Tool maker/mold maker .0001"-.00001"
Machinist .001"-.0001"
Furniture maker .01"-.001"
Rough carpentry .1"-.01"

Now that's a matrix that will provide plenty of discussion for many days... [popcorn] [popcorn]

Fourslide tools for bending wire in production numbers, do not require the same precision as stamping tools, but do require design and building tools with multiple moving parts. 

So a skilled machinist with the mental ability to visualize how the moving parts all work, can make very nice fourslide tools.

Simple shapes like a round ring or a triangle or a rectangle all in one plane can be made by a less skilled worker. 

So I agree, of the six tool and die workers we have, only two or three have the skill set to produce metal stamping dies.  But down the road there was a huge progressive die shop and the sophisticated designs and the precision required almost certainly exceeded the abilities of our tool makers.

But...the tools that they made that could, for example, produce the handle frame on a potato peeler would cost 7 to 10 times as much as the tools we would make to produce the same item.  Their tool would run faster, but would take years to recoup the difference in tooling cost.

Most of our tools are for bending wire into shapes in multiple planes.  We do not do much with flat stock that requires blanking.

Potato Peeler

 

[Bertotti]

For equipment setup and layout, these are my most used tools. I wish TSO would make a square with the accuracy of the MTR. I have found that the red on the woodpecker stuff is getting hard for me to read without glasses but the blue of TSO is pretty easy still. That said they have a new one-time tool for setup depths that I am seriously jonesing for but it is expensive like everything else these two companies have. I love the original Bridgecity tools square but it needs to be adjusted since it isn't as accurate as the TSO squares. And the Incra rules that bend are great! There are a lot of good choices out there. Think about what colors you can read the best how fine you want your graduations etc. Heck that N0#1 odd job was my only setup tool for years. I still use it a lot for smaller stuff. But the three squares are by far my most used for setup. TSO please make a nice blue small square! and triangle! And a 6, 8, 10 triangle instead of a 45-degree one! 30, 60, 90 like we used to use in architectural design classes. So many fine tools to chase! Good Luck!