Looking for discontinued Festool PD 20/4

[Droman]

Hello Fellow Festool fans,

As the title suggests, I am looking for a Festool PD 20/4. Preferably new. I tried multiple shops and the Festool support here in the Netherlands. Unfortunately none of them have it for sale anymore because they discontinued it around 2017. I like to use in combination with a drill stand.

Hopefully somebody has any tips or can help me out

Kind regards,
David

 

[Coen]

There currently is one on German eBay, in Protool colors, as part of a bigger listing. You could ask the seller to separately list the PD 20/4.

 

[AlexThePalex]

A big failure of a drill by itself, and I can't imagine why you'd want to have this specific drill for use with a drill press, no less. The big eccentric overhang of the body is severely limiting its use there. It will get in the way of some workpieces, and might even throw its balance off.

You are really a lot better off with a good 1000W Bosch or Metabo drill with a classic, straight body.

 

[Coen]

Ooh, I didn't even see it was a corded one. Yeah, why on earth would you want a percussion drill for a drill press? Drilling brick? And why not just any of 1001 other readily available ones?

Or buy a dedicated drill press.

 

[Droman]

Thanks for suggestions!

Indeed the form factor of a classic drill would be better. Problem is that I want to be possible to set it in a low rpm. Most classic Bosch etc are way to high in there rpm in there lowest setting.

 

[mino]

Thanks for suggestions!

Indeed the form factor of a classic drill would be better. Problem is that I want to be possible to set it in a low rpm. Most classic Bosch etc are way to high in there rpm in there lowest setting.

You want a drill with the speed selection on the button for that. Even a two-speed one with 1000/3000 RPM will do here.

I can get my Narex 1000rpm/65Nm one spin easily at 200 rpm just by rotating the dial. What is critical is the drill needs to have sufficient torque to handle the low speeds well. The electronics may have a challenge, mine is "pulsing" a bit when making hinge holes as the constant-speed electronics ais trying to keep up, but it works good enough to not vibrate and not burn anything which is the point.

If you want Festool, check DR 20 E. It is a "pimped-up" version of the Narex EV16 K-S which is 98Nm torque monster.https://www.narex.cz/en-GB/65404731-ev_16_k-s

It "cannot be used in a stand" as it does not have a switch lock (new EU regulation, has too much torque) but can be retrofited from an older Protool model ... and a zip-tie works always anyway ...

Bosch and Makita have similar models plus there are some traditional German makers for similar. But cost/quality-wise one cannot beat the Narex at EUR 200 ... only limitation is it sells exclusively from CZ/SK/PL shops (market segmentation and all that ..)

Just be careful with installs into stands - the "serious drill" standard is 57mm collar while the newer "small drill" standard is 43mm.

 

[Coen]

Thanks for suggestions!

Indeed the form factor of a classic drill would be better. Problem is that I want to be possible to set it in a low rpm. Most classic Bosch etc are way to high in there rpm in there lowest setting.

I have a Metabo BSE 850 Impuls, an older version. It has a wheel on top to modify speed and another wheel to modify torque, also two gears so in low gear and low RPM setting it turns really really slow, even with trigger locked. Newer BSE 850 only has this crappy settings at the trigger.

I have this version;

I almost never use it though. Seems corded drills have stopped or even reversed in their evolution years ago... Their torque at low speed is ridiculously low, their rotational kinetic energy is insanely big, so if a drill gets stuck they have one big punch, their weight is too high and they lack a brake, taking a spinning drill too long to stop.

There is still the SBEV 1000-2 and higher that do have one dial on top.

 

[mino]

Seems corded drills have stopped or even reversed in their evolution years ago...

This 100 times.

Those Narex/Protool/Festool ones I mentioned are designs from the early 2000s and gradually on their way out. The DR20 is off from 2022 catalog for example.

That EV16/DRP20/DR20 series is actually an 1980's design with only newer electronics added like 10 yrs ago when the trigger lock was removed on EU requirement.

Seems the high-torque casual tasks are now handled by cordless and impacts with big drills off of the mass market. Moving to industrial-only where specific brands rule.

 

[Droman]

If you want Festool, check DR 20 E. It is a "pimped-up" version of the Narex EV16 K-S which is 98Nm torque monster.https://www.narex.cz/en-GB/65404731-ev_16_k-s

It "cannot be used in a stand" as it does not have a switch lock (new EU regulation, has too much torque) but can be retrofited from an older Protool model ... and a zip-tie works always anyway ...

Bosch and Makita have similar models plus there are some traditional German makers for similar. But cost/quality-wise one cannot beat the Narex at EUR 200 ... only limitation is it sells exclusively from CZ/SK/PL shops (market segmentation and all that ..)

Great suggestions Mino and Coen.

Unfortunately I was planning to buy a 43mm Wabeco drill stand. If not DR20 or EV16 would be a great pick. Why would they go with two different size collars..?

I looked at similar (newer) machines as the BSE 850 but was under impression that they wouldn’t go much lower then 1000-1200 rpm as the specs say. For example the Makita HP2071:
https://www.makita.nl/artikel/makita-hp2071-230-v-klopboormachine.html

But if I check the Metabo specs they very look similar to the Makita.

 

[mino]

The "big" drills have much stronger mechanics which would not fit inside the smaller diameter collar. There are bigger bearings, bigger gears etc. etc. These are heavy-duty machines through and through.

If you plan on use the Wabeco drill/router stands, then you better not even think of them anyway. I have the EV16 and it would make quick meat out of those stands ... too much torque.

The Makita should be fine and at a good price. I would go for it, test, and plan to return if not good.

What you are looking for there is full-wave/constant-speed electronics which monitors the drill speed and varies the torque as needed to maintain it. Without that a casual speed-control drill is no good as it does not have the torque at low speeds. This is best to first get the stand and buy a couple drills gradually, returning those you do not find adequate as you go.

A good test is to try some 35mm eurohinge holes in hardwood with it at slow speed, think 100 to 200 rpm slow. If it passes it will likely handle other stuff fine.

If you decided to check the Narex pieces from TTS, then I would recommend the EVP13-2 HC model. It is a relabeled Protool PDP 24-2. A gentle beast. https://www.narex.cz/en-GB/00763321-evp_13_h-2c

 

[Droman]

Ah yeah, didn’t though about that, sounds logical.

Really good to know about the full-wave electronics.

I think I wil try out Makati as its easy to get hold on. Never heard about Narex. Shame it’s not available around hear, looks like  good machines.

 

[mino]

Ah yeah, didn’t though about that, sounds logical.

Really good to know about the full-wave electronics.

I think I wil try out Makati as its easy to get hold on. Never heard about Narex. Shame it’s not available around hear, looks like  good machines.

It is basically the "Maktec of Festool" these days. Festool bought the company in the 1990's, made the Protool brand from its products and some other German and their stuff.

When Protool project did not work out, the Protool tools which fit into Festool portfolio were relabeled as Festool, the PD 20/4 being one of them. Same for those which fit the Narex portfolio. The development was already funded, so why not. Specialist stuff was discontinued.

These days the original factory is mostly making Festool with Narex kept as a local brand. Their in-house tools like drills etc. are generally "Festool quality" on the mechanicals, why Festool bought them to begin, but mostly not Festool finesse and definitely not the accessories, warranty etc. etc.
Started outsourcing chinese stuff recently to go after the lower end of the pro market. Still not a hobby brand of the Ryoibi style though.

 

[Coen]

If you want Festool, check DR 20 E. It is a "pimped-up" version of the Narex EV16 K-S which is 98Nm torque monster.https://www.narex.cz/en-GB/65404731-ev_16_k-s

It "cannot be used in a stand" as it does not have a switch lock (new EU regulation, has too much torque) but can be retrofited from an older Protool model ... and a zip-tie works always anyway ...

Bosch and Makita have similar models plus there are some traditional German makers for similar. But cost/quality-wise one cannot beat the Narex at EUR 200 ... only limitation is it sells exclusively from CZ/SK/PL shops (market segmentation and all that ..)

Great suggestions Mino and Coen.

Unfortunately I was planning to buy a 43mm Wabeco drill stand. If not DR20 or EV16 would be a great pick. Why would they go with two different size collars..?

I looked at similar (newer) machines as the BSE 850 but was under impression that they wouldn’t go much lower then 1000-1200 rpm as the specs say. For example the Makita HP2071:
https://www.makita.nl/artikel/makita-hp2071-230-v-klopboormachine.html

But if I check the Metabo specs they very look similar to the Makita.

Why not just get a drill press with fixed motor? Do you want to use it with a router too?

 

[Droman]

As you mentioned with the evolution of drills, I find this the case with most drill presses with a fixed motor (or maybe any stationary power tools..) There big, clunky, bad tolerances, no smart internals, and most of them have a bad build quality.