LR32 capability with tall cabinet

Cedar Shaker

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Feb 12, 2014
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I’m starting to design a cabinet that will utilize my Festools, but I’ve encountered a problem that I believe this smart audience will be able to help me solve.  The cabinet stands about 72” (1829 mm).  From the bottom up, there will be seven drawers and a top with doors.  The top will have two raised panel doors (one on each side) and the interior will have an adjustable shelf (white oak plywood with white oak trim).  The cabinet is about 2’ wide and 2’ (610 mm) deep.  It will have a face frame.

I recently purchased the LR32 w/1400 mm hole guide for doing doors and shelving.  I don’t want to have to go purchase the 96” hole guide.  I thought of making it two cabinets, but I was wondering is it possible to keep it as one?  Is it possible to use the LR32 from the top down with a 1080 mm guide rail and attached using the 1010 and the entire setup is clamped to the cabinet? Then am I looking at another challenge with the 35 mm holes on the doors?
Thank you for your help.
Cedar Shaker
 
This has been discussed here quite a few times but not lately. Te biggest concern your gonna have is keeping the 32mm OC dimension between the shelf holes.

I chose to buy 2 1400 holy rails and connect them. The 32 LR end stops (whatever ya call them) has a = sign on the center of it. You place that in between the 2 connecting rails with the = in the middle and tighten the connectors it will maintain the 32mm OC distance.
 
I, too, use two "Holy Rails".  They're much more useful in my world than the single long "Holy Rail". 

 
I will take your recommendations and purchase another “Holy rail” so it remains one cabinet vice two.  :)

Cedar Shaker
 
Suggest that you also look into buying a Betterley Straightline connector to help you align the two rails for long cuts or line boring. 

 
Sparktrician said:
Suggest that you also look into buying a Betterley Straightline connector to help you align the two rails for long cuts or line boring.

I'll second that.  The Betterley makes putting 2 rails together fast and accurate.  Well worth the $99.
 
Interesting that you mentioned getting a Betterley.  I purchased one a few months back to align a 1400 mm and 1080 mm rails.  Thanks.
 
Cant you just stick a couple 5mm pins in there to line up the guide for the next series of holes?

Also, if adopting the 32mm system you may find it a lot easier to just start using the metric system. The 32mm spacing of the holes has a purpose. They should be aligned so they work for the shelf pins, drawer slides, cabinet connectors and hinges. If your throwing a face frame on there it defeats most of the purposes. Cabinet heights should be based on a multiple of 32mm as well. Check out the Blum manual and it should be helpful.
 
BBrown626 said:
Check out the Blum manual and it should be helpful.

In the few times I've visited the Blum site, I find it confusing and mind-numbing. Any chance you can provide a link?
 
BBrown626 said:
Cant you just stick a couple 5mm pins in there to line up the guide for the next series of holes?

No.  The holes in the "Holy Rail" are not used for the drill bit in the router.  They're used by the alignment pin on the LR 32 plate.  Further, the holes in the rail are not round, but oblong. 

 
I purchased another LR32 “holy rail” so I can do the entire cabinet.  I'm trying to take the leap to all mm for the cabinet.  I combined the two using my Betterley and ensuring there was no gap between the two rails (rails have never been used).  I measured the distance between the holes and they are 32 mm apart on each rail.  However, when I measured the bottom hole of the top rail and the top hole of the bottom rail that was now attached seamlessly, the distance between the two are about 25 mm.  Should the distance be 32 mm?  If it shouldn’t be 32 mm, then may I ask why and what is the solution?  I asked my Festool dealer and he didn't know the answer, so I'm turning to the experts.  I realize I’m new to the FOG, so if this has been discussed elsewhere please direct me.  Thanks.

Cedar Shaker
 
Use the longitudinal stop to get the span right between the end holes on the rails as you join them.

Tom
 
Cedar Shaker said:
I purchased another LR32 “holy rail” so I can do the entire cabinet.  I'm trying to take the leap to all mm for the cabinet.  I combined the two using my Betterley and ensuring there was no gap between the two rails (rails have never been used).  I measured the distance between the holes and they are 32 mm apart on each rail.  However, when I measured the bottom hole of the top rail and the top hole of the bottom rail that was now attached seamlessly, the distance between the two are about 25 mm.  Should the distance be 32 mm?  If it shouldn’t be 32 mm, then may I ask why and what is the solution?  I asked my Festool dealer and he didn't know the answer, so I'm turning to the experts.  I realize I’m new to the FOG, so if this has been discussed elsewhere please direct me.  Thanks.

Cedar Shaker

You're leaving out a critical step here.  The LR 32 Guide Rail Index (496938) is used to give you the precise spacing between rails so that you will retain the 32mm spacing between holes.  Take one of the rails and set the Guide Rail Connectors (482107) into it and gently tighten the set screws on that end.  Then attach the Guide Rail Index to that rail with "16" up and out using the included thumb screw through the last hole in the rail.  Now slip the second rail onto the connectors until the last two holes snap into place on the bumps on the Guide Rail Index.  Now tighten the remaining four connector screws on the second rail.  There will be a noticeable gap between the two rails.  Once you have all eight screws tightened on the connectors, remove the Guide Rail Index.  You will have the precise 32mm spacing. 

 

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What sparky said, the edge stop should be set at 32 up and out but when ya connect the 2 holy rails use the end stop 16 up and you'll see a = sign tat will set the space between the 2 rails.
 
Tom, Sparky, and Jobsworth,
Thank you for putting me on the right path.  Sparky, your detail instruction and picture helped me a lot.  Festool has great tools, but the FOG is the best.  :)

Cheers
 
Sparktrician said:
BBrown626 said:
Cant you just stick a couple 5mm pins in there to line up the guide for the next series of holes?

No.  The holes in the "Holy Rail" are not used for the drill bit in the router.  They're used by the alignment pin on the LR 32 plate.  Further, the holes in the rail are not round, but oblong.

OK. sorry, I have not used that tool. I now recall it has a device to position the router and it makes sense that that is not 5mm.
 
I'm resurrecting this thread in order to add additional content (and hopefully context) both of which are surprisingly absent from this forum and at least the English-speaking portion of the internet at large (at least according to my preliminary survey of same).

I'm getting ready to build a frameless wall-oven tower (using domestic 3/4" (~19mm) birch-ply solid maple edge-banded w/Eagle America 190-2045) that will consist, from the base up, of:
  • an appliance garage w/roll out (that will be covered by two Shaker-style cabinet doors) and, at the top of that, an edge-banded vertically positioned stretcher that will act as the stop for the tops of the doors while also providing the minimum spacing from the bottom of the oven cutout as required by the oven manufacturer);
  • the hole for the 30" oven (the top of this opening will be fitted with another vertically positioned stretcher to provide the minimum required spacing from the top of the oven cutout);
  • a horizontal partition that forms the floor of another hole (this one for a microwave - in addition to featuring a recessed 120V receptacle, the back of this 3rd level will also house the flush-mounted metal junction box where the electrical connections for the wall oven will be made - yes, using Ilsco tap connectors); and
  • a horizontal partition doubling as the ceiling of the microwave hole and floor of the single enclosed shelf above (the latter of which will be covered by two Shaker-style cabinet doors).
   
So, IOW this tower will have four distinct levels, some requiring line boring for hinge mounting plates (as well as other hardware) and others not.

The good news is that, at first blush, the only hole boring for hinge mounting plates I will need to accomplish (assuming I don't decide to cover a portion of the microwave hole with a door - more on this below) will occur within the first level and the fourth level.

So, in order to utilize the LR32 in this scenario I will simply register off the bottom of the tower...

...for plunging the holes for the hinge mounting plates for the two cabinet doors that will enclose the appliance garage pull-out - the Blum Tandem slides for the pull-out will be bottom mounted since I can still get away with this even though there will also be a hatch in the base of the tower to provide access to the hydronic kickspace heater that I've already installed within the sub-kick beneath...

...and the top of the tower...

...for plunging the holes for the hinge mounting plates for the two cabinet doors that will enclose the upper-most level,...

...respectively.

I will then make a note to remind myself which edge of the associated doors to register off of when I plunge the holes in those doors for the hinges. 

The tricky bit - and this gets to the point of my post - is how to positively register the LR32 if I add a vertical partition and a door enclosing the partitioned area (within the wider expanse of the microwave hole).

Since the overall cabinet width is much larger than is needed for a small microwave, my thought is to add a vertical partition within the third level to create a smaller enclosed cabinet, in my case to the left of the space for the microwave. This would take up the excess horizontal space that would otherwise exist if I did nothing to reduce the width of that space. Of course, I could leave the partition as is and not enclose that partitioned space with a door (which would negate the need to pre-drill holes for hinge mounting plates) but I kind of like the idea of enclosing it so it matches the surrounding cabinets (thus leaving the microwave hole the only "open" hole within that wall of cabinets).

In this scenario, I need to plunge holes vertically mid-field for the requisite hinge mounting plates.     

The problem that arises is with how to register the LR32 for hinge mounting plates in the case of vertical mid-field placement within a taller tower. In the case of an intermediate level, since there's no physical "hard" bottom edge or top edge (like there is with the top or bottom of a "regular" cabinet) there's no hard edge to register the LR32's end stop against.

I suppose I could transfer the location of the reference face of the end stop onto both edges of the guide rail (using a precision square and a fine point permanent marker) and then, after removing the end stop, align those marks to a line drawn from the front to the back of each tower wall (representing the future location of the floor of that level), in effect using that drawn line in lieu of what would otherwise normally be the bottom edge of a panel. This would involve some eyeballing (versus relying on hard stops) but I suppose it could be done. This approach would require that the base of the shelf that comprises the floor of the microwave portion of the cabinet, once installed (in my case with a mixture of dominos and screws - the latter in locations that will be hidden by other shallower wall cabinets and the latter in locations not hidden by anything), be precision installed since any variation in the vertical location of the floor of the microwave portion of the cabinet compared to the reference line would introduce inaccuracy that would complicate the process of mating doors to that opening, given that the installation of hinges on the doors also relies on using the LR32, though in "door mode".

In other words, there's using the LR32 to plunge holes in panels - "panel mode" - and there's using the LR32 to plunge holes in doors - "door mode". "Door mode" alludes to the future existence of a separate but corresponding door (or set of doors). And, since the whole point of the LR32 system is hole drilling accuracy on panels and doors via the reliance, in most cases, on hard stops of various forms (the end stops, the edge stops, the holey rail(s) and the corresponding router sled with its spring-loaded centering pin plus the router's plunge depth-stop), having to rely on my eyeball to plunge holes vertically mid-field for hinge mounting plates elevates my concern level.

That said, I'm regularly able to successfully eyeball the lateral placement of the guide rail for plunging mid-panel and back-panel holes for drawer slides (I know I can use the edge stops referencing off the front edge of the panel with the guide rail flipped around for plunging the mid-field column of holes but I usually just rely on my eyeball since that precludes my having to reset the edge stops - the latter being a needlessly tedious task that I'd rather avoid). So, maybe I could also successfully eyeball the vertical placement of the guide rail by using the aforementioned reference line for plunging the holes for hinge plates.       

So, has anyone encountered this situation before and come up with a better solution?

As an aside - I am aware that by linking a couple of 1400mm holey rails together and referencing off the top or bottom (or both top and bottom, in the case of a balanced panel(s)) of the walls of a tower cabinet, shelf-pin holes and holes for drawer slides can be accurately pre-drilled anywhere along the entirety of the tower wall(s) with no problem. What I'm alluding to here thus only applies to pre-drilling holes for hinge mounting plates in an intermediate location. Accuracy in this respect is needed given that there will mating components (in my case, cabinet doors) which will need to be similarly referenced by using the LR32 system. And since in "door mode", the bottom or top of the door (or both bottom and top in the case of a balanced door) is used to, in effect, reference off the same plane as the top or bottom (or both top and bottom in the case of a balanced panel(s)) of the corresponding panel (following whatever protocol was used while plunging the holes in the panel(s)), the absence of a top and bottom of the corresponding cabinet panels (as in the case of an intermediate level within a taller tower) complicates things. 

So, maybe in cases like this folks simply dispense with the LR32 and rely instead on other store-bought or shop-built jigs and/or careful measurements, etc., for pre-drilling for hinge mounting plates. Or maybe folks simply forgo pre-drilling entirely and instead, after the cabinet has been assembled, install hinge mounting plates "by hand" (the old fashioned way) using a vix bit and jig/careful measurements, etc. 

However, given the surprising dearth of discussion about this, I'm really not sure what folks tend to do.

Thoughts?
 
Could you make the tower in two seperate cabinets? Bottom cabinet is the garage with roll-out, oven space and microwave space. Top cabinet above.
Top cabinet sorts itself out, as far as drilling goes.
Bottom cabinet you work from the bottom and top. The top of the bottom cabinet is the full width, for ease of using the LR-32 rail, as that eliminates the need for a 19mm spacer when using the rail on the intermediate panel you're looking to introduce.
 
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