LR32 & Systainer³ Rails SYS3-SN/4

[keithwwalker]

Beginner warning!

I purchased some Systainer³ Rails SYS3-SN/4 to fasten into some very simple plywood boxes with casters.
https://www.festoolusa.com/accessories/storage-and-transportation/other-accessories/other-accessories/204871---sys3-sn4

The SYS3-SN/4 instructions don't give dimensions between the screw holes along the rail:
https://media.cdn.festool.io/productmedia/Images/attachment/e4f70fa6-a6e6-11ed-8a3c-005056b3ad01.pdf

Wondering if the hole spacing follows any sort of convention like Blum Process32, etc. ?  I can surely figure out the distances, but just wondering if there is a method to thier madness?

I also want to practice with the Festool LR32 Rail (I already own it) & the SYS3-SN/4 instructions picture a generic countersunk wood screw.  But the rails aren't designed for countersunk screws. 
Can anyone recommend a non-countersunk head screw for fastening into a LR32 hole?
Fwiw, the thickness of the rail at the screwholes are 3mm thick, 18mm plywood, & the holes in the rails are 6mm.  I guess I would drill 5mm holes for the threads that are 6mm diameter?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Coen]

Those look more like furniture screws

Like these:https://www.hornbach.nl/p/hettich-s...ing-6-3-x-10-5-mm/8003469/?searchTerm=HETTICH+Schroef+voor+rechtstreekse+bevestiging+6%2C3+x+10%2C5+mm&isInitialRequest=false

As for the distance; well... nobody thought about any height with the Sys3...

The previous generations were always a multiple of 52.5mm (+ 7mm feet). The new ones are a multiple of 50mm PLUS a fixed 30mm (+7mm feet). With the 112 having the fixed portion being 5mm instead of 30mm. It's just a giant mess now. Used to be able to combine Systainers to achieve equal-height stacks. But now that is pretty much only possible if you use the same number of Systainers in each stack. And it doesn't stack to MFT height either unless you have a very very specific set..

 

[keithwwalker]

Thanks for the information, but I want to know about the spacing of the 4 holes for each slide.  I don't know if it is a standard distance and what standard that would be.

 

[woodferret]

Thanks for the information, but I want to know about the spacing of the 4 holes for each slide.  I don't know if it is a standard distance and what standard that would be.

1st hole 32mm from front.  2nd hole 335.0mm from front.  Min box depth 380.0mm

Use standard 5mm euroscrews.

 

[keithwwalker]

Some issues with the drawers - I don't think they are the most thought out product:

• For the cost, they should of included the fasteners.  Countersunk EuroScrews are not the best application as the mounting flange for the screws are flat.
• Most commonly available euroscrews are only 13mm thread depth, and these drawer slides are have a 3mm flange, with means a usual euroscrew will have only 10mm thread engagement at most.  Not great when they recommend 18mm plywood and can probably get 13-14mm holes

Getting longer euroscrews is an option, but there are sold in bulk. I found some screws from Hafele that are longer than 13mm and have a flat head engagement:

P[/member].FF.followSearch=9972&PageNumber=1&OriginalPageSize=12&PageSize=48&Position=47&OrigPos=47&ProductListSize=82&PDP=true]https://www.hafele.com/us/en/product/varianta-steel-screw-pan-head-steel-nickel-plated/P-00900139/

https://www.hafele.com/us/en/product/euro-screw-with-special-cylinder-head-2-pozi-drive-bulk-pack/01320743/?MasterSKU=P-00900099&PageSize=48

As far as dimensions goes on the distance from front of panel:
Just measuring from the front of the plastic:
32mm/98mm to first slot/94mm to next slot/112mm to last slot in the back.
Cumulative:
32mm/130mm/224mm/336mm
Add 5mm offset from the front, to have a 37mm similar to Blum System (though it doesn't match Blum Process32 at all afaik):
37mm/135mm/229mm/341mm

The instructions would have you put 13mm gap before the bottom of the bottom shelf rail (32mm additional height to the first hole), but that is generous.  You can reduce to 5mm, imo.  5+32=37mm to first hole (37+18=55mm to edge of board)

The depth of the system with 37mm to first screw hole is about 350mm.  Add 18mm for a full thickness backer and that is 372mm.  Close enough to recommended 380mm/15in.

 

[Coen]

How big is the hole in the rail? And the space for the head?

Out of the two Hafele links... if the rails are designed for cylindrical head screws, definitely the first link.
The text says PZ2, but pictured is PH2. But ok.

I don't think they were designed with LR32 in mind. Primary usecase would be vans with Bott racks..

 

[woodferret]

It's a odd way of biting the hand that feeds.

I'm 41.5mm from the bottom of the panel.  My cart side panels sit on the horizontals, like most sysport designs.  18mm thick ply.  This means the LR32 stops you use the 9.5mm, and skip the first hole.  Showing both the schematic and the result.  There's barely a 3mm gap below the rail.  Maybe it's 5mm as you suggest, but I can't be bothered to scoot low down there with a caliper for you anymore.  There's also no 37mm-fying the front edge.  It's exactly as stated at 32mm - push back if you really want that extra 5mm set-back.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

As for screws, the chamfer on euro screws is fine.  Don't use an impact driver.  Snug fit will remove all dynamic load, and the rail ABS and screws support more than enough for a loaded systainer.  If you're transporting lead ingots in a SYS m437, then it's a concern.

 

[keithwwalker]

I don't know much of the Bott racks, perhaps the middle two bolt spacing suits them?  Otherwise, there is already a Bott drawer slide for Sys3
https://systainer.store/collections/bott-smartvan/products/bott-runner-kit-for-systainer3-m

I don't think they were designed with LR32 in mind. Primary usecase would be vans with Bott racks..

 

[keithwwalker]

I won't be transporting ingots, but I will have several Festool SYS3 containers full of metric fasteners and they are very weighty.

Anyway, some good assumptions for screw length:
I am working with 18mm plywood.  Some layers are 3mm, some are 2.5.  Best to not drill into final lamination, else it will show up on the veneer as a bulge or splinter (possibly).
The Festrool rails have a 3mm thickness to their screw face.  So add 3mm to thread engagement in the wood to get total thread fastener length.
Festool rails have a 15mm flat countersink, so any fastener head diameter should be less than that.

I found some screws for plastic that I ordered, and here are the specs:

6x18mm, with 13.5mm washer head
6mm thread, with 4.26mm diameter (guess I will drill 4mm holes)
T30 engagement, I prefer the feel of this tool and not so much posidrive.

Note these are screws for plastic, but I think the threadform will work well going into wood.  It's called an STS Plus threadform.

https://us.screwerk.com/en/shop/detail/stp/STP380600180E.html

I think this is the Amazon page, but won't ship to USA
https://www.amazon.de/Schriever-Stainless-Plastics-Panhead-Pressed/dp/B0B51WBW8N?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

 

[Coen]

That price..  [eek]

6x18 is a rare size for wood screws.

Spax has 6x20;https://www.schraubenhimmel.de/schr...lbrundkopf-wirox-6-0x20-tx30-vollgewinde?c=61

They are usually slightly shorter than their stated length.

 

[keithwwalker]

This is a regular pointed screw, and would probably crack the veneer on the opposite side of 18mm ply. 

Trick is to find Euro screws with the blunted nose so you get thread engagement in a predrilled system.

I am still trying to find euro screws that are longer than 13mm, Schriever screws are expensive, but they are closest to what I need and what I can find.

That price..  [eek]

6x18 is a rare size for wood screws.

Spax has 6x20;https://www.schraubenhimmel.de/schr...lbrundkopf-wirox-6-0x20-tx30-vollgewinde?c=61

They are usually slightly shorter than their stated length.

 

[Coen]

100 pieces, 8 buckshttps://www.amazon.nl/50-euro-scharnierschroeven-schuifschroeven-16/dp/B07RS4SQRV?th=1
6.3 x 16

You need to give up on 18  [tongue]

 

[woodferret]

To put things in perspective, standard blum slides mounting holes are chamfered yes, but the screws are ever so slightly smaller than the chamfer, thus the metal-metal contact point is typically riding on the top point.  Not unlike the SN/4.  Distance taken up by the slide is 2mm vs the 3mm for the SN/4.  Our 13mm screw is perfectly fine for 75kg+ slides.  You're really overthinking this.