Might be Moving to Germany

[Wildcoach]

Hi All,

I may be moving to Germany and want to know if I can keep my Festools that I purchased here in the US.  Can I convert them to 220v to run on European electricity?  Or, am I better off with using a converter?  Or, should I just sell everything and buy when I get there?

Your thoughts are all appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[ccarrolladams]

Because Festools run on 50 and 60 hertz AC, all you will need is a large enough step-down transformer from that approx 230v 50 hz 1 phase typical electrical service in Germany to the 115v 1 phase used by Festools sold in the USA.

Before rushing to sell your USA Festools, carefully research the cost of replacing them with similar Festools purchased in Germany. Here on The FOG, people say that Festools sell for relatively less money in the USA than elsewhere.

When the time comes to return to the USA, of course your current Festools will work fine. But to power Festools you buy while in Germany, you will either need a step-up transformer, or use 220v 1 phase service.

Please note that in general the USA Uniform Electrical Code does not allow use of hand held electrical tools using more than 125v 1 ph AC. So, my suggestion is to sell any Festools you buy in Germany while still in Europe, where the power is not an issue, and replace them back in the USA.

 

[jonathan-m]

Re-buying the tools in Germany will most definitely be a lot more expensive than what you bought them for in the US.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Here on The FOG, people say that Festools sell for relatively less money in the USA than elsewhere.

No idea where you got that impression from. In Europe, second hand Festools sell way cheaper than in the states, percentage wise.

To the OP I'd say sell your American tools and buy them here second hand. You will probably play even. You could take your tools with you and use a converter to make them fit 240 volts, but that will be getting old real soon. If you're planning to stay for a longer time in Germany, get the 240 volt versions. The market for second hand Festools is very big here and you won't have any trouble replacing them.

Now, if you want them new, that's gonna cost you. New Festools are relatively more expensive here than in America.

 

[Eli]

When I moved to AU I kept a few US volt tools and got a transformer. Agree with the earlier poster. It does get old really fast, even for cordless. Remember you get to enjoy buying tools all over again, even if they aren't new.

 

[Kev]

How long are you going to be in Germany and are the tools for work or hobby?

Further - how many tools are we talking about?

Obviously all the accessories are compatible and the cordless tools only need to charge from correct voltages.

Also consider your warranties.

Kev

 

[Wildcoach]

Thanks for all the responses.  I appreciate the help and ideas I had not considered, especially the warranty issues.

FYI, I have the following tools: TS75, RO150, Domino 500, CT26, OF 1400.

After reading the responses, I have the following questions:
1) How does moving to Germany and using a transformer affect th ewarranty?
2) Can I plug the CT26 into the transformer and run the tool through the CT206?
3) Would such a transformer be an expensive purchase?

P.S.  I really don't want to have to buy them all over again, either used or new.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[Kev]

Thanks for all the responses.  I appreciate the help and ideas I had not considered, especially the warranty issues.

FYI, I have the following tools: TS75, RO150, Domino 500, CT26, OF 1400.

After reading the responses, I have the following questions:
1) How does moving to Germany and using a transformer affect th ewarranty?
2) Can I plug the CT26 into the transformer and run the tool through the CT206?
3) Would such a transformer be an expensive purchase?

P.S.  I really don't want to have to buy them all over again, either used or new.

Thanks again,

Bill

When I had a brief moment of considering 110V tools here in Oz for a cost saving, I looked about at transformers a lot. The UK has a thing with 110V on work sites, so you'll find durable worksite transformers (in the $100 to $200+++ range). Powering the CT from a large enough transformer, then the Festool tool (or any other 110V tool) from the CT is fine. You need to look at the max current draw and add a bit of headroom when selecting a transformer.

Plugs/sockets will be a potential complication. Most of the US socket specific transformers tend to be targeted to lower current draw appliances. Maybe just switching the CT plug will be your easiest path.

I would image warranty could be a complication, the local service centres are unlikely to be able to service 110V tools from the US, even is the warranty is acknowledged!

 

[AlexThePalex]

1) How does moving to Germany and using a transformer affect th ewarranty?

Using a transformer doesn't affect the warranty. Unless of course if the defect is caused by the transformer and it can proved.

2) Can I plug the CT26 into the transformer and run the tool through the CT206?

Yes. You have to calculate the total power used which for the CT26+TS75 combo is 1200+1600=2800 watt. Add 25% overhead and you'll need a 3500 watt transformer.

3) Would such a transformer be an expensive purchase?

$175 in America, €150 in Germany.

P.S.  I really don't want to have to buy them all over again, either used or new.

How long are you planning to stay anyway? Just 1 or 2 years or permanently? Eventually, you will start to hate dragging the heavy transformer around for every little job you have to do. If you then decide to get 240 volt tools you're stuck with the 110 ones as you won't be able to sell them here in Europe. 

I would image warranty could be a complication, the local service centres are unlikely to be able to service 110V tools from the US, even is the warranty is acknowledged!

All 110v Festools are made in Germany. I think they'll be able to get their hands on a couple of spare parts.

 

[greg mann]

Here on The FOG, people say that Festools sell for relatively less money in the USA than elsewhere.

No idea where you got that impression from. In Europe, second hand Festools sell way cheaper than in the states, percentage wise.
To the OP I'd say sell your American tools and buy them here second hand. You will probably play even. You could take your tools with you and use a converter to make them fit 240 volts, but that will be getting old real soon. If you're planning to stay for a longer time in Germany, get the 240 volt versions. The market for second hand Festools is very big here and you won't have any trouble replacing them.

Now, if you want them new, that's gonna cost you. New Festools are relatively more expensive here than in America.

Alex, I think Carrol was referring to new tools being cheaper in the US. Your observation that used Festools are probably cheaper in Europe is key to the OP's question, I think. We are used to seeing very high prices for used Festools here and that might be a source of anxiety for him regarding used prices once he gets to Germany.

 

[promark747]

Here on The FOG, people say that Festools sell for relatively less money in the USA than elsewhere.

No idea where you got that impression from. In Europe, second hand Festools sell way cheaper than in the states, percentage wise.
To the OP I'd say sell your American tools and buy them here second hand. You will probably play even. You could take your tools with you and use a converter to make them fit 240 volts, but that will be getting old real soon. If you're planning to stay for a longer time in Germany, get the 240 volt versions. The market for second hand Festools is very big here and you won't have any trouble replacing them.

Now, if you want them new, that's gonna cost you. New Festools are relatively more expensive here than in America.

Alex, I think Carrol was referring to new tools being cheaper in the US. Your observation that used Festools are probably cheaper in Europe is key to the OP's question, I think. We are used to seeing very high prices for used Festools here and that might be a source of anxiety for him regarding used prices once he gets to Germany.

I don't understand the economics of this...if the prices of new tools are higher in Europe, why would used prices in Europe be lower?

 

[RC]

Note the %-wise in Alex's post. High starting price at -50% becomes reasonable.

The depreciation depends heavily of the country you are in as well i.e. UK is its own little island with an incompatible electric plug (compatible 230V/50Hz voltage thou) and the 110V weirdness they have for site tools, central Europe is quite unified with a slight split between French-speaking and German-speaking countries/areas and the Nordic countries are a language island for themselves with Swedish/Danish/Norwegian area one whole and Finnish speaking are its own island.

Festool is be quite popular in central Europe by both professional and hobbyists and the ebay there is full of second hand hobbyist tools with little use behind them. That drives prices down on the second hand market. Unfortunately most sellers don't want to post internationally so us northern Europeans are left out of that market [crying]

In Finland it's not unheard of that out-of-warranty Festools sell still for 75-85% of new price whereas in Germany you can find significantly better deals.

One day I'll have to look into re-mailing services in Germany and see if it pans out worthwhile with large & heavy things like tools. Postage from the UK is ridiculous unless you're a company with special prices. 

Personally I would not even think about playing with transformers if I were to come over for more than a 6 months. I have some American friends who came here with loads of converters and US bought computers, stereos, microwaves, etc. and every one of them has replaced their gadgets with EU ones to get rid of the transformers. They are bulky, always in the way and large enough transformers to get a stable 2.2kW out are expensive.

Also the frequency makes a difference so just transforming 230V/50Hz to 110V/50Hz might not work on all pieces of equipment that are designed for 110V/60Hz unless their power supply's are of a universal kind that accept both. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't understand the economics of this...if the prices of new tools are higher in Europe, why would used prices in Europe be lower?

The general price level for NEW Festools is lower in America because there are not so much taxes on them as in Europe. We pay more taxes on every tool we purchase, but then again, our bridges don't crumble down upon our heads and we don't have to sell the house when we need mayor surgery. Second, the idea has been brought forward by some members here that Festools for the American market are somewhat subsidised by sales from other countries like Europe and Australia, to make Festool more accessible to Americans. After all, Festool is still trying to become more known in America so it seems a good idea not to put the prices too far away from the competition.

In Europe, Festool is as solid as a rock, not an unkown fringe brand, but a strong market leader in its own class, a brand most people in the trades see as the line to compare to. There are a lot of dealers here, and there are a lot of sales. As a result, there is also a large market for used Festools. If you go to www.eBay.com, the American site, and type in Festool, you will get 118 results. If you go to www.eBay.nl, the Dutch website and you do the same, you'll get 12.000 results. (Btw, eBay in the Netherlands list ads from the Netherlands, Germany and the Uk, which together is about half the population of America and Canada). But even the Dutch only website marktplaats lists 1000+ Festool ads, while our population is 20 times as small as America's. Get the idea?

So in short, the market for Festools is a lot bigger here than in the USA, and as a result, also the market for used Festools. And because the market for used Festools is a lot bigger, the prices go down. A well used Festool here will only do 35-45% of the new price, while that might be 80% in the States.

Edit: just read Reiska's reply. It is true that the difference depends on which European country you're in. When you're in Germany or Holland, percentage wise, you've hit the jackpot.

 

[mouppe]

Note the %-wise in Alex's post. High starting price at -50% becomes reasonable.

The depreciation depends heavily of the country you are in as well i.e. UK is its own little island with an incompatible electric plug (compatible 230V/50Hz voltage thou) and the 110V weirdness they have for site tools, central Europe is quite unified with a slight split between French-speaking and German-speaking countries/areas and the Nordic countries are a language island for themselves with Swedish/Danish/Norwegian area one whole and Finnish speaking are its own island.

Festool is be quite popular in central Europe by both professional and hobbyists and the ebay there is full of second hand hobbyist tools with little use behind them. That drives prices down on the second hand market. Unfortunately most sellers don't want to post internationally so us northern Europeans are left out of that market [crying]

In Finland it's not unheard of that out-of-warranty Festools sell still for 75-85% of new price whereas in Germany you can find significantly better deals.

One day I'll have to look into re-mailing services in Germany and see if it pans out worthwhile with large & heavy things like tools. Postage from the UK is ridiculous unless you're a company with special prices. 

Personally I would not even think about playing with transformers if I were to come over for more than a 6 months. I have some American friends who came here with loads of converters and US bought computers, stereos, microwaves, etc. and every one of them has replaced their gadgets with EU ones to get rid of the transformers. They are bulky, always in the way and large enough transformers to get a stable 2.2kW out are expensive.

Also the frequency makes a difference so just transforming 230V/50Hz to 110V/50Hz might not work on all pieces of equipment that are designed for 110V/60Hz unless their power supply's are of a universal kind that accept both. 

A little off the mark there Reiska! Admittedly, I had to look the list up on Wikipedia (so I can't be sure of the accuracy) but I knew that there were many countries around the world that used the same plug as the UK.

"The UK plug design is used in the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Sri Lanka, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Yemen, Oman, Cyprus, Malta, Gibraltar, Botswana, Ghana, Hong Kong, Jordan, Macau, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, Iraq, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe. BS 1363 is also standard in several of the former British Caribbean colonies such as Belize, Dominica, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, and Grenada. It is also used in Saudi Arabia in 230 V installations."

 

[Vindingo]

We pay more taxes on every tool we purchase, but then again, our bridges don't crumble down upon our heads and we don't have to sell the house when we need mayor surgery.

:

 

[RC]

Note the %-wise in Alex's post. High starting price at -50% becomes reasonable.

The depreciation depends heavily of the country you are in as well i.e. UK is its own little island with an incompatible electric plug (compatible 230V/50Hz voltage thou) and the 110V weirdness they have for site tools, 

A little off the mark there Reiska! Admittedly, I had to look the list up on Wikipedia (so I can't be sure of the accuracy) but I knew that there were many countries around the world that used the same plug as the UK.

"The UK plug design is used in the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Sri Lanka, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Yemen, Oman, Cyprus, Malta, Gibraltar, Botswana, Ghana, Hong Kong, Jordan, Macau, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, Iraq, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe. BS 1363 is also standard in several of the former British Caribbean colonies such as Belize, Dominica, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, and Grenada. It is also used in Saudi Arabia in 230 V installations."

You are quite right Richard, but as you can see from your rather extensive list, only the British Isles in Europe utilize your type of plug. Every other EU country to my knowledge uses the German-type plug.

Nothing to stop one from swapping the UK plug-it cord for a German one thou. Only problematic ones are the planers EHL65/HL850 and some older Festools with permanently attached cords. And another thread shows pictures of a new EHL65 EQ with a plug-it so that one is getting finally some love from Festool engineering.  [smile]

 

[Wim]

I did the same but in the other direction. I went from Holland to the USA. We could have swapped most of our tools. 
After a long period of weighing pro and contra arguments, I decided to buy new tools in the USA and sell my Dutch Festools. I only brought my CMS-table with a TS55 plate to the States because at that moment the CMS was still banned by UL. I could sell most of my tools for about a 50% to 60% of their current new value and as already said, the tools are cheaper in the USA.