Most versatile Drill

[Tim3100]

Hi,

I’m soon moving to a new place where there is some renovation work to do (new floors, removal  of a wall, new wood stairs,...). Therefore, I’m building up a small home machine park. After falling in love with the TS55 and the Kapex KS60, I decided to go all Festool.

I’m now looking for one drill, which covers in the best case all use cases during renovations and later on — maybe besides drilling in reinforced concrete walls if this would broaden the spectrum to much.

Could you maybe give me a recommendation for the most versatile and generic drill? What is the machine you use most of you have several?

I appreciate any comments and suggestions .
Tim

 

[Birdhunter]

I have a bunch of Festool drills. If I could only keep one, it would be the T-18 with the accessory kit. If only two, they would be the TSX and the T-18 both with the accessory kits. The T-18 has all the power I will ever need. The TSX is a delightful tool that feels great in the hand and can reach into impossibly small spaces, especially with the nifty accessories that come in the kit.

If possible, you should try both the "C" and "T" handle form factors. I prefer the T handles. Others like the C handles.

 

[Sanderxpander]

For installation work and drilling jobs in wood up to, like, 12mm/half an inch I would recommend going with a small comfortable model with some options for an angled head etc. From Festool this would be the CSX12 I think. I have a Bosch 12V "Flexiclick" kit myself that I'm also happy with, and Metabo/Mafell make a similar 12V model.

What you can't do with that very well is drill in stone and certainly not concrete. But my situation is probably similar to yours in that I'm renovating my home and most of the time you really just don't need the power and weight of an 18V model and it's just annoying to do smaller jobs with something made to drill stone or concrete. So you'll end up getting at least two if you have stone or concrete to do as well.

I now have a bunch of drills, there is no concrete in my home but the outer walls are brick. If I had to make do with just one drill it would be my 14.4V Fein drill that I got in a kit with a multimaster oscillating tool. It has an impact setting that is strong enough for the brick in my house and it's not crazy heavy. I still reach for my 12V Bosch 90 percent of the time. It's just mo fun using anything heavier overhead or anything bigger installing closets etc.

EDIT:
By the way, Bosch also does two impact screwdrivers on the same battery platform. So I usually use the drill for drilling and the impact driver for screwing as it's infinitely more powerful for that and easier on the wrist. Since I only needed to buy the body it cost me like 60 bucks. I think with such a combo and a heavier corded drill hammer for the occasional tough work you could do almost anything without breaking the bank.

 

[demographic]

My view on this is, whilst its nice to have one drill with a million attachments you can swap over in twenty or so seconds, its generally more practical to have two or three so you can just leave a drill bit in one, a screwdriver bit in another and maybe an SDS bit in another and just pick one up when you need it.

You can usually get two or even three from another manufacturer cheaper than one Festool.
Make sure one of them is an impact screwdriver, another a drill driver with a chuck that opens upto 13mm (or half an inch if you're using those Liberian measurements) and an SDS sure is handy for one that drills stone or concrete.
Oh and make sure the bleedin things all have decent belt hanger clip things, that stupid flappy thing I saw on a Festool drill a while ago (think it was a T18 or something like that) was pathetic, I had to look at it everytime I hung it off my pouch.
Got a few Hitachis that have a great clip that I just don't have to think about, just hang it off my toolbelt pouch without looking.
If you're in a workshop thats not really an issue, just place it on your bench and take photos of it for instagram

 

[Slowlearner]

I have no experience w festool drills but i do have extensive exp on my Rigid drill set. I know homedepot has a drill and driver brushless 18v  2 batteries and a charger for about 180.00. Batteries and tool is lifetime warranty as long as you send in the info. I have used the drill to drill into concrete slab metal ypu name it.  After about 5 uears the chuck couldnt grip. Sent it in no worries. For right angle i ise a milwalkee m12 but thats just house hold dont expect to go through heavy concrete w it but i have

 

[Tim3100]

Thanks for the quick replies!

I get the impression using one machine will become too much of a compromise. I currently already own a Bosch GSR 12V, which I think is ok for small jobs. I tried to drill out a metal screw once without any success, which was quite frustrating and somehow the starting point for my thoughts on a new (replacement) drilling tool.

Maybe keeping the Bosch for small jobs and adding a T18 / C18 / PDC would make sense? Would the T/C-18 be able to drill occasionally in concrete? I could later on still switch the Bosch to a TXS / CXS if I think it is worth the upgrade.

>> If possible, you should try both the "C" and "T" handle form factors. I prefer the T handles. Others like the C handles.
I will definitely try to find a store to test this.

>> By the way, Bosch also does two impact screwdrivers on the same battery platform.
Thanks, I will have a look at that! I wasn't too excited by the GSR, but I understand the reason was mainly because I used it outside its comfort zone (metal drilling).

>> Oh and make sure the bleedin things all have decent belt hanger clip things
Will double-check  [smile]

 

[Tim3100]

I have no experience w festool drills but i do have extensive exp on my Rigid drill set. I know homedepot has a drill and driver brushless 18v  2 batteries and a charger for about 180.00. Batteries and tool is lifetime warranty as long as you send in the info. I have used the drill to drill into concrete slab metal ypu name it.  After about 5 uears the chuck couldnt grip. Sent it in no worries. For right angle i ise a milwalkee m12 but thats just house hold dont expect to go through heavy concrete w it but i have

That's definitely a better price point, but I would be willing to spend the money for Festool. If one tool is too much compromise and two don't fit in the budget, I would rather buy one tool now and add a second sometime later.

 

[Slowlearner]

Gotcha. Price point youll probaly be into all drill w chargers for id say under 400. Milwalkee drill is  tool only so youll need a charger and battery. I used the m12 to drill into steel..it was a frame of a car and it did it. Good luck w the decision. Let us know which was you go.

 

[RKA]

Price aside, I would consider a tool set from another mainstream tool brand.  You’ll benefit from their entire ecosystem of tools in your projects, many of which aren’t even available from Festool (starting with the impact driver!).  Those sets will all include a hammer drill or drill driver.  Use it and see how it goes.  If you’re not happy, sell it then look at the Festool. 

If you do go do Festool to supplement the 12V Bosch, it’s either the PDC or C/T18.  The PDC will do light drilling in concrete, the C/T18 is not made for it.  But I like the 4 speed gearbox and higher drill speeds in the PDC.  It’s a beast of a drill.  It is about an inch longer and half pound heavier than a T18.  I pair it with a 3aH battery to cut down on weight and fatigue.  The ability to turn on the LED and keep it lit is very handy.

For real concrete work, buy or rent a Bosch SDS.  There is a night and day difference compared to a hammer drill. 

 

[Cheese]

I think the largest plus for Festool drills is their interchangeable chuck system. After that, the compactness and light weight of the CXS drill is really beguiling. It's my favorite drill to use for small fastening tasks.

If I need to torque down a number of fasteners to a consistent and repeatable level, I choose the C 15 because it uses electronic torque sensing rather than the fairly crude typical slip clutch that's in other drills.

For all other tasks I use a Milwaukee M18 drill. It has more power than a Festool drill and is lighter than a Festool PDC while still having a hammer function for light duty concrete/brick work. It's brushless so the battery life is great and it cost around $300 with 2 batteries and a charger.

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[sancho57]

I agree with the guy that said Its better to have 2 or more drills. I have 2 a C 12 and a C 18. Makes life a lot easier. For example counter sinking and driving screws. Its a hassle to keep changing bits especially if you have a lot to do.

I also have a milwaukie hannerdrill. A older one when Milwaukie was milwaukie long before they were sold. It has a keyed chuck.
I very seldom use it only for drilling into concrete. I dont do that very much. Maybe one quick job every couple of years.
It stays on the shelf until I need it. Its one of those tools that I dont use very much but sure and glad I own it when I need it.

But for 99% of the time my C 12 / C18 work just fine for my needs.

 

[RKA]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me.  If I run the screw at a lower consistent speed, I get repeatable results.  But in construction type tasks running long screws into 2x lumber at full speed, the electronic clutch frequently overdrives the screws be a large margin of error, where as the mechanical clutches are much more accurate.  I’ve gotten frustrated with the level of concentration required with the electronic clutches and either sneak up manually rather than relying on the clutch or switch out to one of my other drills.  I’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch.  Any ideas??

 

[waho6o9]

" I’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch."

Same with my PDC, I'll  use my two C-12s anytime all the time.

Who wants to hear a beep when you're trying set your Spax and GRK fasteners?

 

[Bill Chang]

I’ve been running the T18 for years as my primary drill.  I also have a C15. But I prefer the classic T-style.

One of these days I’ll probably pick up the smaller csx type form factor.

I use the T15 for everything from mixing drywall to driving screws while on a ladder, don’t really notice the weight but I know it is there.

The belt clip sucks.

 

[rhoyer]

I'm also in the 2 drill camp (maybe 3?). I think a drill that is essentially a driver, a workhorse drill, and a corded beast for jobs where you really want to abuse a drill is the ideal setup. In Festool parlance you'd be looking at a T/CSX and a T/C18 for the cordless options. The interchangeable chucks are nice.

I have had the Milwaukee m12 Fuel hammer drill and a standard m12 screw driver for quite a long time. After buying a TS55, CT36, OF1400, and MFT/3 I really fell in love with Festool products. After an RTS400, CT Midi, ETS/EC 150, RO 150, RAS 115, OF1010, LR32 system, DF700, RO 90, carvex 420, and more abrasives (both for sanders and sponges) than I thought I would ever own I decided my drills could use an upgrade. Especially given how much I like the eccentric and fixed 90 degree chucks. Having already adjusted my drill grip on my Milwaukee drills to using my ring or middle finger on the trigger depending on the application I ordered up a CSX and C18. This is where this story falls apart. I, personally, was really unimpressed with the centrotec system as a whole and I felt the balance of my Milwaukee 12V drills was on par with the Festool drills. I headed into my local Woodcraft and drove a load of screws with a TCX and T18 and was equally not blown away by their feel. The fit and finish is great, but I couldn't find a way to choke down the Koolaid on these drills despite desperately trying to. Given that I have no plans to buy any other Festool coordless tools I returned the drills and, frankly, was happy to not add 2 additional battery chargers to my collection. I ended up purchasing, on eBay from the UK, a Milwaukee M12Bddxkit-202C which is an m12 drill with 90 degree, jacobs, and eccentric swappable chucks. It's not as "nice" as the CSX but for $200 it's more capable and fits my current system. Bosch and Metabo both make 12V offerings with an even more expansive set of chucks than my Milwaukee that are available in the US without making an international purchase.

The TL/DR of this is that it may be worth you while to really assess the drill market as a whole before diving in. I think Festool products are at the top of the food chain, especially in the US market, but there are a lot of really good drills out there and drill ergonomics are a pretty personal thing. There aren't really any features on the drills, as there are on lots of Festool tools, that make up for personal preference on feel.

 

[Sanderxpander]

If you have a 12V Bosch I think that changes stuff a lot. Do you have the one with exchangeable chucks (Flexiclick) or the regular one? The FC version is really versatile. But even if you don't it's a different story than starting from scratch. I would definitely recommend a more powerful 18V model in that case, if you have stone/brick walls like I do get one with an impact setting. That won't help with concrete but it'll do everything else. With a drill like that and a 12V (or 10.8V, they're the same really) impact driver you'll be able to tackle almost everything around the house.

You'll probably use the new drill a lot in the beginning but after a while the ocompact format of the 12V ones will come back into focus I think, especially as you get closer to finishing the house rather than doing rough construction.

 

[demographic]

If you end up looking in another "ecosystem" then its worth mentioning that I have an 18 volt De-Walt brushless cordless  SDS that can have its own little extractor fitted (although I've not done that yet so can't comment on how good it is.
The drill does manage pretty well and Ive drilled 18mm holes into concrete with it with no isssues.

The 18 volt range (or 20 volt max in Liberia) has a nice impact screwdriver, with decent power and three LED lights that actually light the front up instead of just casting a shadow of the bit.
Ive used one of those a fair bit and its compact, fast and nice to use.
One thing about De-Walt is the other tools on the same battery platform. Theres some very good nailguns, the jigsaw is OK, the portable planer is just as good as any other cordless one.

Whatever cordless platform you choose, have a look at the other tools you can get and might want.

I really like Festools saws and feel they are at the top of their game with them, personally I'm not at all interested in the Centrotec which whilst it cojld be good if other companies produced bits to that standard it might have been a winner. As it is Centrotec is a bit Betamax insofar as it was theoretically better than VHS was but you pay through the nose for it.
Those torque settings in screwdrivers might be OK if I was setting screws into the same homogeneous material all day but wood just isn't quite like that so I almost never use the torque settings otherwise I'm constantly adjusting them.
I just can't see how Festool drills are worth the extra money, the saws? Hell yes but the drills? Not so much.

Im a site based subcontractor carpenter so those who are workshop based might have equally valid but different ideas. They usually prefer lighter drills with less amp hour batteries as they are closer to a charger.
I'm often on sites where the charging stations are hundreds of yards away and not always so secure either so I'd rather have a 5 Ah battery that doesn't need charging so often.

 

[Dick Mahany]

I purchased a T18 +3 set when my years old DeWalt 14.4 drills began failing.  I like it very much and it has plenty of power for nearly anything I can throw at it.  The versatility of the interchangeable chucks makes this drill suitable for a wide variety of uses.

More recently, I added a Bosch 12V Flexiclick and have been amazed at how much power that little drill has.  Although the chuck is smaller and it is not brushless, I find myself reaching for it far more often than the T18.  The interchangeable chucks are very well designed and you can use the offset/eccentric chuck in direct combination with the right angle adapter (unlike the T18).  The light weight combined with a surprisingly long run time are a real convenience particularly for typical assembly and installation uses. 

If I had to pick only a single drill, it would have to be the T18 only because of the increased power of an 18V brushless motor.  However, if I merely needed a do everything drill in the 10mm chuck range for medium and light duty work, it would be the Bosch Flexiclick at less than a third of the price of my T18.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think the current T18 is the best all-round Festool drill to get. Or the C if you like that better, the shape is a personal preference.

Would the T/C-18 be able to drill occasionally in concrete?

Wouldn't make a dent. You need a drill with a very decent hammer function for that.

I agree with the guy that said Its better to have 2 or more drills.

Same here. I have a T15 and a C12. T15 for driving screws, C12 for drilling holes. Works so much faster than constantly having to switch out bits.

The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me. 
...
’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch.  Any ideas??

Ideas? Yeah, what you did, forget about the clutch, I have the exact same feeling, the electronic clucth is totally inconsistent and unreliable. I've gotten used to do it manually.

 

[Tim3100]

For really heavy work, I can borrow a cord Makita jack-hammer from a local friend. But I think it would be handy to at least be able to drill an occasional hole for a picture frame with my own machines. This would probably favor the PDC over the T18 and C18. I think I will try to find a dealer to get them in my hands, compare and find out my personal preference. If I like the T/C more (as I think many of you do), I maybe give up the concrete drilling option if I take Festool.

If you have a 12V Bosch I think that changes stuff a lot. Do you have the one with exchangeable chucks (Flexiclick) or the regular one?

I only have the regular one, but I still like it for small jobs.

PS:this forum is impressive, thanks for all the feedback!