mudding drywall

[jeep jake]

Hey guys need some advice, I started a small construction company. Almost every job I have done there is some sort of drywall work thats needed, and I have subbed out all of them. But I would like to start doing it my self. I have very limited experience, I generally will hang the drywall, sometimes tape and do the first coat of mud and hire a painter to finish it. My biggest issue is dust, another thing is time. So my question is what sanders, and sand paper are you guys using for small drywall jobs. I picked up a ets 125 and its worked great for patching small holes, but what about for bigger jobs? Thanks guys

BTW What I call small is ten sheets to patching holes.

 

[Kev]

Simple answer is - you need a PLANEX.

Short of that (and I've not had the need personally to leap to a PLANEX) an EST150/5 is a really good sander for drywall.

You have a limited choice of abrasives for the PLANEX - so you get what they supply (and it's obviously optimised for drywall). I use Granat here down under and it's fine for me.

Do you envisage doing ceilings? A PLANEX would excel there !

 

[fatroman]

My house, one room at a time, and a DTS400 with Granat (120-180) has been exceptional.

If time is an issue, I've used hot mud to start and then a thinned out JC as the finish coat.

 

[Sparktrician]

I've found that my RO 125 works really well with 120 grit to smooth out drywall mud.  The key word here is "gently".  I may use the ETS 125 with 180 grit as a final in places that are highly visible. 

 

[Bikeboy80]

Simple answer is - you need a PLANEX.

Short of that (and I've not had the need personally to leap to a PLANEX) an EST150/5 is a really good sander for drywall.

You have a limited choice of abrasives for the PLANEX - so you get what they supply (and it's obviously optimised for drywall). I use Granat here down under and it's fine for me.

Do you envisage doing ceilings? A PLANEX would excel there !

I completely agree.

I use my Ets125 for small patching jobs (hole patching or small rooms, like a powder room) anything larger the Planex is used.
I do my taping coat with premixed heavyweight compound or speedster if needed, second coat is done with premixed lightweight with only a scraping with a taping knife in between, no sanding. It then do a sand with 150 or 220 brilliant, skim coat spots as needed and do a final sand with the same paper.

You can do larger areas with the ETS, but of course it will take longer.

The Planex might be worth the jump for you, take a look at the Recon sale going on now.

 

[Jaybolishes]

You sound like a perfect candidate for a planex.  I would definately steal the one on the recon sale.  The dust is almost zero with it and you'll be amazed at the time you will save sanding, as well as cleaning.  The planex was the best thing I've bought in a long time. 

 

[tjbnwi]

Planex, DTS or RTS for corners. Don't forget you need both hoses.

Tom

 

[Tinker]

I never used sanding to finish off my drywall.  I learned how to do plastering, both sand finish and whitecoat before dry wall even came out on the market.  With white coat, you troweled smooth and left a shiny surface with just the trowels. No sanding, but a little spattering of clean water to bring out a shine.

When i learned how to tape, I learned from tapers who were far better plasterers than I ever dreamed of becoming. Those who i learned from, even tho taping was easier for them, they still continued with "real" plastering for years.  They were fast and very precise at their art and would have booted my tail across the floor had i left "snots" on wall or ceiling that needed sanding.  They would cringe if they could see me trying to tape today.  my hands are so shaky I can not come close to a corner.  I would probably need lots of sandpaper today.

Since i learned to plaster, I always used a plaster hawk to hold the compound.  I have tried those buckets hanging from a belt with absolutely no smoothness of application from bucket to wall.  I also cannot use two plaster trowels, using one to hold supply and other to applicate.  I dump it all on the floor that way.  I also have never worked with any excellerators.  i am sure that if I had, i would certainly need to start thnking about sanding.  I see tapers today applying several coats in one day.  When I was doing it, we did one side of a corner joint one day.  One or two days later, we did the other side of the corner.  today's mixes, using excelerators leaves almost no time for smoothing out a rough troweling.  I would probably really leave a mess on that basis.

In those days of yore, we bought the compound in bags of dry powder.  We had to mix it by hand.  I mixed in a small mortar pan the same as I would have mixed a small batch of mortar.  Others used various bent rods and paddles they mounted in their 1/2" electric drills.  I eventually used 1/2" foundation anchor bolts.  It was several years before they came out with premixed compound.  That was much easier.
Tinker

 

[jeep jake]

has anyone used the planex with a regular festal vac? was there any issues?

 

[Bikeboy80]

I don't have personal experience, but with the volume of dust created I think you would lose suction quickly and be attempting to tap out the filters all of the time.

 

[chrisrosenb]

The fist step with finishing drywall is to learn how to apply the mud so you have minimal sanding.

I sand all of the drywall I finish with a DTS 400 with 220 Brilliant 2 paper.  The last drywall job I hung, finished & sanded was 33 sheets of 4 x 12 drywall.
I sanded all of it using the DTS 400 hooked to a CT36 vac. I use a bag in the CT36 & never had any problem with loosing suction.

 

[Julian Tracy]

I sand all of my drywall jobs with the Festool 1/4 sheet square sander (400?) for all of the corners and the Porter Cable drywall sander for the overall main areas.  I've been doing so for years with either a Fein vac with bag, a CTY22 with bag or a Clarke (Alto?) vac with bag with no noticeable lack of performance.

For the little Festool sander, I use Brilliant 180-220 grit and medium speed and low suction - even then, it gets a bit squirrly at times.  For the PC drywall sander, I use full suction and whatever PC discs I have on hand, probably 150/180/220 - they last forever.

Contrary to the popular opinion here, the PC sander works great for drywall and aside from the Planex, which I have no doubt is better is many ways, I've sanded many many large drywall projects with my PC sander all dust free.

Keep your eyes open for the PC sander on Craigslist - frequently available used for $175-250.  Keep your eyes open at Home Depot rentals - they sell their lightly used tools.  Recently picked up another PC sander along with a Festool quality 36mm vac hose, the PC sander hose as well as the Clarke (Euro-made) VS tool activated vacuum for $255 total.

The Planex would be great I'm sure, but it's certainly not the Domino of drywall sanding.

JT

 

[JoggleStick]

The other thing you need to consider is the compounds you use...
There's always the temptation to use an 'all in one' pre-mixed GP Plaster, but and this is a big BUT, the pre-mix, whilst most convenient, definitely has limitations- mostly a very long drying time whenever it's applied any thicker than a skim coat.

The alternatives are the dry powder compo's. The biggest difference is drying time and secondary is sandability... and this can have a very dramatic difference to the workflow of the whole job.

I'm in Australia and we simply call drywall=plasterboard. The three most common compo's I use are Cornice Cement, Base Coat and Top Coat. Base and Top coats (for taped joints) can be bought as 30, 45 and 60 min 'open time' or 'set time'...

You can also modify these slightly with Hot or Cold gauging water or even a little orange juice in the gauging water to extend open time...

There are even more options with different compo's and obviously the weather/climate plays a part.

Once you get confident with the compo's you can push the envelope a little...
Like this...
Let's assume there are a half dozen hammerhead sized holes in the drywall- where I missed the stud  and punched the hammer right through the drywall...
First up, push a golf-ball sized wad of newspaper in each hole and plug hole with cornice cement. Cut and fit ceiling cornices. Using a 'wrung out' sponge, polish patch holes and cornice 'squeeze-out'.
Using paper tape and base coat set all joints, internal and external corners, and hole patches. Set and top off nails/fixings, etc.
Have lunch. After lunch, use wrung-sponge to lightly wipe-off and polish any 'wrinkles' in base coat. Using a 300 mm taping knife apply first light coat of top coat. Do something else and last thing for the day is to lightly sponge off first top coat and apply second top coat with a 450 mm taping knife. What's missing? .... No Sanding!
Next morning.... If it's a big job I've got a WallPro Sander... But generally, if it's one room or so. I just use a hand float and a hand pad for corners and feather the edges, etc holding the vac in my spare hand.
This method is good for consistent 3-4 star finish and is ideal for painted ceilings and a low sheen acrylic on the walls...... Minimum Dust toooo...

 

[farms100]

like it was said above learn how to apply the mud well, thin coats, very smooth etc.

Arounds here most quality homes use skim coat plaster. It cost slightly more but its far quicker, when the crew leaves the job its smooth with no sanding required. I wont say its less messy, but you don't have sanding dust into every nook and cranny of the house. painters charge less for surface prep etc.

Business wise it makes sense to do small stuff yourself.  Any largish job I would look at the cost benefits of subcontracting it out. can you make the same money hanging drywall and mudding compared to doing another small job that only take a couple days?

 

[Tinker]

The other thing you need to consider is the compounds you use...
There's always the temptation to use an 'all in one' pre-mixed GP Plaster, but and this is a big BUT, the pre-mix, whilst most convenient, definitely has limitations- mostly a very long drying time whenever it's applied any thicker than a skim coat.

The alternatives are the dry powder compo's. The biggest difference is drying time and secondary is sandability... and this can have a very dramatic difference to the workflow of the whole job.

I'm in Australia and we simply call drywall=plasterboard. The three most common compo's I use are Cornice Cement, Base Coat and Top Coat. Base and Top coats (for taped joints) can be bought as 30, 45 and 60 min 'open time' or 'set time'...

You can also modify these slightly with Hot or Cold gauging water or even a little orange juice in the gauging water to extend open time...

There are even more options with different compo's and obviously the weather/climate plays a part.

Once you get confident with the compo's you can push the envelope a little...
Like this...
Let's assume there are a half dozen hammerhead sized holes in the drywall- where I missed the stud  and punched the hammer right through the drywall...
First up, push a golf-ball sized wad of newspaper in each hole and plug hole with cornice cement. Cut and fit ceiling cornices. Using a 'wrung out' sponge, polish patch holes and cornice 'squeeze-out'.
Using paper tape and base coat set all joints, internal and external corners, and hole patches. Set and top off nails/fixings, etc.
Have lunch. After lunch, use wrung-sponge to lightly wipe-off and polish any 'wrinkles' in base coat. Using a 300 mm taping knife apply first light coat of top coat. Do something else and last thing for the day is to lightly sponge off first top coat and apply second top coat with a 450 mm taping knife. What's missing? .... No Sanding!
Next morning.... If it's a big job I've got a WallPro Sander... But generally, if it's one room or so. I just use a hand float and a hand pad for corners and feather the edges, etc holding the vac in my spare hand.
This method is good for consistent 3-4 star finish and is ideal for painted ceilings and a low sheen acrylic on the walls...... Minimum Dust toooo...

Your sponge story reminded me of a story i related here on the FOG a few years ago.

A neighbor asked me for a price to tape his cellar remodelling project.  About three or four rooms, all drywalled.  I gave him the price and he wanted to know if i minded if he tried doing it himself.  NO PROBLEM.  I'll would tell him how to do it, even show him to get him started.  He would have to purchase his own tools as i would not loan my tools to anybody.  I'm left handed and lefties wear the edges and handles differently than righties was my excuse.  If he were lefty, it would be flat out no loaning of tools, period.  He went down to the local supply yard to purchase tools and compound that i had recommended.  While there, he met one of his DIY buddies who gave him the advise that he did not need those tools. all he neded was a sponge. Well, a couple of weeks later, i was not surprised when i got a phone call to do a rescue job.  It was then that he relayed the sponge story and that he was now in real trouble. I took a walk over expecting to see something of a mess that would be somewhat easy to rectify with putty knife and sand paper for and evening or two.  In my wildest dreams, i could not have immagined the nitemare i saw when i entered his cellar.  to make a long story short, it cost the poor man about four times as much to have me straighten the project out than it would have cost had he accepted my original offer. AND, then, he had to do a major cleanup... dust everywhere from my sanding and gobs of mud on the floor because even with sanding, the walls and ceiling were stil very uneven with waves like the ocean.  I had leveled as best I could without breaking his bank.
Tinker

 

[TurnagainD]

As much as I love using my festool sanders I have not used them on drywall, and I hate sanding drywall.  With practice, there is very little sanding needed.  I thin the compound with a bit of water and apply light coats. Personally, I'd rather apply 4 light coats than 3 coats with lots of sanding.  I sub out for large jobs though because it would take me forever to do a whole house!

 

[Julian Tracy]

Even a little hand sanding causes LOTS of dust and mess.  I like to think I've gotten very good at Drywall through the years of doing quite a bit of it.  My mud jobs require very little sanding, but they still do require sanding, so I prefer to carry it out in a vac bag as opposed to having the workspace be a cloudy mess.

Not for the newbies, you can easily chew upp a wall right good with powered sanders of any type, but with a gentle touch, you'll be done quicker and require NO cleanup.

Julian

 

[cgraham]

In response to using a planex without the 36 I do and it doesn't work very well. Should have splurged for the 36 but I had a 22.  Works better with a lowes shop vac than the 22.  My fault for not going with what was recommended. As far as sanding drywall, as long as your topcoat is purple mud(lightweight) just a little hand sanding is all that is necessary. Any electric sanding will just scratch the paper on the drywall and show through.  Don't forget to hand sand after drywall primer also

 

[farms100]

In response to using a planex without the 36 I do and it doesn't work very well. Should have splurged for the 36 but I had a 22.  Works better with a lowes shop vac than the 22.  My fault for not going with what was recommended. As far as sanding drywall, as long as your topcoat is purple mud(lightweight) just a little hand sanding is all that is necessary. Any electric sanding will just scratch the paper on the drywall and show through.  Don't forget to hand sand after drywall primer also

have you tried it with some sort of dust deputy like thing, or does the drywall dust blow through the cyclone?

 

[JoggleStick]

I always use the DD. Period. Plaster Sanding dust and perhaps concrete grinding dust is the finest most pervasive material on site. You can manage it as best you can- but it gets in everywhere despite your best efforts. As many have said- by far the best way to minimise it is to learn to set plaster well, so sanding is minimal.
The DD will certainly catch the majority of sanding dust. If sanding all day you can expect a cup or so of dust to be in the bag after emptying a 4-5 gallon bucket under the DD.
For me, doing bathroom reno's, I can vac up spilt water with the DD and hose the bucket out with no hassle.... Try that with a DC and see what a mess you have to deal with..... Like I've said many times the DD has changed the way I work- for the better.