My First Roof Build...

[jonny round boy]

Just finished my first ever roof build, for a mate of mine. It's for his new shed. He originally asked if I could build a gable roof, which I didn't think could be too tricky. Then his mrs decided she wanted a hip roof. So I googled it & found out how it should be done. I also asked a few questions of JMB, as I knew he does quite a few roofs!

Last nights job (we could only do it in the evenings after work) was to fit the wall plate - once this was done I could get the exact dimensions for the roof, and draw it up in SketchUp:

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Then this evening I cut all the pieces as per the drawing, and assembled them. I used the Kapex for almost all the cuts, the Carvex for the ones the Kapex couldn't do, and my PDC 18 to screw it all together. The only non-Festool I used was my old Bosch green planer, to put the slight bevels on the top of the hip rafters. There were some very slight alterations to the hip rafters required, but other than that it all fitted together perfectly!!!

As usual I forgot to take pictures during the build, but here are some pics of the finished frame. All out of 4x2 treated:

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I think it's quite good for my first! My mate is now going to felt and lath it, before fitting some terracotta tiles.

 

[roblg3]

some very nice framing [thumbs up]!!

 

[Deansocial]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

 

[Deansocial]

Everything else looks great

 

[jonny round boy]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

Ok, didn't come across that in my in-depth (5 minutes on google!) research. At least I know now if I ever have to do one again. Which is unlikely.

They were only that deep as I'd read that the seat of the birds mouth should be the same size as the width of the wall plate. I guess if it was a full-size roof with bigger rafters then that could be achieved without going more than 1/3rd in...

 

[Deansocial]

I think the seat cut thing is more an american thing. I like to have a seat cut that size when i can but more often than not it would require more than a third out the rafter.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

Yeah noticed that about the birds mouths, also noticed you have put the dieheidrel angle on the hips looking good for a first time

 

[Billedis]

For your first time I think you ought to feel quite proud.  I like it.  Bill

 

[rmwarren]

JRB - the roof looks great, but what about those wall panels?!?!? They appear to be off-the-shelf modular precast panels. Is that something that is readily available over there?

You folks certainly build stuff to last, i.e. castles, etc...  [poke] "Shed" must have a different connotation than it has in my neck of the woods.  [big grin]

Nice job.

RMW

 

[Sparktrician]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

Had to laugh about that one.  Almost 20 years ago a friend asked me to help him build a 12' x 24' shed and called me the night before to design his roof trusses.  No problem there, but the next day when I made one test truss which worked fine, I got busy cutting the pieces for the remainder and another friend was to cut the birds mouths from my template.  We went to put the rest of the trusses in place and noticed that he had cut the birds mouths backwards.  He had placed the template wrong end down when he cut them.  This was an easy fix, but we all ribbed him about the error until his untimely death a few years ago. 

 

[wow]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the purpose of the shallower birdsmouth to leave more material in the rafter to support the overhang beyond the wall? Regulations notwithstanding, there's very little overhang there to worry about...

 

[jonny round boy]

JRB - the roof looks great, but what about those wall panels?!?!? They appear to be off-the-shelf modular precast panels. Is that something that is readily available over there?

They're pre-fab concrete. I don't think they're as popular as they used to be. He used them because the last shed got broken in to, so this one is going to be more secure! They were second-hand, and very cheap/free. I think they look awful, but hey, it's not in my garden!

It might look a little better when they paint the walls... [huh]

 

[jmbfestool]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

I noticed that but to be fair the overhang is very small so I don't think its a problem.

Also how I look at it for example.    If a 4x2 rafter is big enough to do the job but you decide to use a 8x2 rafter for example than one could cut more than 1/3 of the 8x2 because you would still be leaving more timber for the overhang support than if you has used a 4x2.

My work shop roof was a good example the structural engineer stated 6x2 on one elevation and 8x2 on the other and I decided to use 8x2 on the entire roof.   So from what I said I could in theory cut a slightly larger births mouth on the roof which I could of used 6x2.

So to say it can never be more than 1/3 would be debatable.    

 

[Deansocial]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

I noticed that but to be fair the overhang is very small so I don't think its a problem.

Also how I look at it for example.    If a 4x2 rafter is big enough to do the job but you decide to use a 8x2 rafter for example than one could cut more than 1/3 of the 8x2 because you would still be leaving more timber for the overhang support than if you has used a 4x2.

My work shop roof was a good example the structural engineer stated 6x2 on one elevation and 8x2 on the other and I decided to use 8x2 on the entire roof.   So from what I said I could in theory cut a slightly larger births mouth on the roof which I could of used 6x2.

So to say it can never be more than 1/3 would be debatable.    

I have had to recut a roof brcause of this before. Again the rafter was over size and very little over hang but building inspectors  are a bit hit and miss here. I would rather have a 4" seat cut. I think it makes a much stronger connection.

 

[jmbfestool]

Birds mouths are way too big. Can not be more than 1/3 of rafter depth in uk.

I noticed that but to be fair the overhang is very small so I don't think its a problem.

Also how I look at it for example.    If a 4x2 rafter is big enough to do the job but you decide to use a 8x2 rafter for example than one could cut more than 1/3 of the 8x2 because you would still be leaving more timber for the overhang support than if you has used a 4x2.

My work shop roof was a good example the structural engineer stated 6x2 on one elevation and 8x2 on the other and I decided to use 8x2 on the entire roof.   So from what I said I could in theory cut a slightly larger births mouth on the roof which I could of used 6x2.

So to say it can never be more than 1/3 would be debatable.    

I have had to recut a roof brcause of this before. Again the rafter was over size and very little over hang but building inspectors  are a bit hit and miss here. I would rather have a 4" seat cut. I think it makes a much stronger connection.

I remember you saying . 

I agree I would rather favour larger seat cut than overhang support unless the roof has a large overhang which required more strength.

Jmb

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Jonathan

An excellent job - no need to worry about the bird mouth as it is just a shed (unless your friend is moving in some tenants!).

The whole concept will transform the concrete shed into something much more elegant as the roof will draw the eye once the tiling is done.

Peter

 

[Tinker]

Great job, JRB. 

A few years ago, I was doing a stone retaining wall for an engineering friend of mine.  He and his buddy, another engineer, were putting an addition on his house.  They were measuring for each and every rafter cut instead of using a template.  I suggested making a template (i had worked at carpentry before i started my masonry biz), but they said it takes too much time.  I later kept my big mouth shut as i noticed they had set up a ladder to measure, make plumb marks using string and plumb-bob and cut by hand saw each rafter tail from underneath, getting saw dust down their necks and sometimes in their eyes.  My helper (absolutely no experience in construction other than as my masonry helper) saw what they were doing and asked why they were cutting the tails that way.  No answer, but by the time all of the tails were cut off, none lined up and they had to cut face pieces so they would line up.  Again, no template, but measure each face piece and by time they were finished, still not aligned. 

It is amazing what one can do if they just ask questions before getting started. My friends did not have a clue and were not willing to listen, if not to advice, to even listen to the questions.

Tinker

 

[wrightwoodwork]

I take it they've never heard the saying you've got 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason

 

[roblg3]

Those gems of wisdom are often reserved for "blue collar" workers! especially a "rook" who thinks he knows too much [wink]

 

[Theshipstore]

JRB.    This was a great job, it's a shed, what you built is going to work for the purpose it was designed for. 

Great Job

Sal