My first tub surround

[Packard]

I will be tiling my first tub surround next weekend.

I stapled 6 mil thick plastic sheeting to the studs and then applied cement board.  I used the special cement board tape to tape the butted joints of the separate boards and used thinset to fill all the screw holes and voids. 

I applied two coats of Red Gard waterproofing. 

I have 24" x 24" porcelain tiles and thinset and 1/8" leveling spacers.

I am not too worried about water intrusion.  This is a rarely used guest bathroom.  I've lived in this house for 24 years and it probably has seen 6 or 8  showers. 

Any tips or suggestions or things to lookout for?  I have only laid 12" x 12"  and 12" x 24" floor tiles.  I have a 1/2" x 1/2" notched trowel coming in.

 

[Koamolly]

Consider Laticrete epoxy grout.  Less porous than regular grout. Seems like you’d still need it completely waterproofed for even one time? Are your tile edges 90 degrees? Not tapered for spacing?  Some are.  If tapered the levelers will give wider gaps at the top.  Caulk at tub to backer board before tiling. Make sure you know where all your tile edges will be by manually laying them out ahead of time. Most of my other suggestions, which you might have done, would have been for before backer board installation… blocking for grab/towel bars/hooks, doors, waterproofing sub floor around tub, blocking backer board joints and staggering seams, taping tub to plastic transitions with waterproof tape, electrical for future Washlet or chargers/wireless speakers/toothbrushes, etc.

 

[Packard]

I probably should have called it a "shower/bathtub surround".

The tiles are 24" square with rectified edges.  It will have schluter stainless steel shelf.

 

[Peter Kelly]

If the deck of the tub isn't dead on level, I like to set up a ledger board and start where the second course would begin, then work up to the top from there. Go back and add the bottom course last, making any necessary cuts to fit the first row. Also be sure and tape around that Schluter shelf prior to silicone-ing it in place, it's very difficult to remove any unwanted calk residue from stainless steel.

I wouldn't recommend Spectralock or any epoxy grout for a non-professional tiler. Mapei Keracolor or Laticrete Colorbase are both more than adequate and far easier to work with.

 

[Packard]

I was planning on using the same type of grout as I used for the floors (but in white to go with the light-colored "marble" finish). 

It does not appear that the Schluter shelf will arrive by this weekend, so I might put this off until the next week.

The shelf will mount on the wall opposite the shower head and high enough that it probably won't get wet.  I am hoping that the thinset will be sufficient to hold the shelf in place.

 

[Peter Kelly]

Ah, ok thought that was the style of shelf with the tabs that just slides into the grout line. Should be fine without silicone but I'd still tape it off.

 

[Packard]

I'm not sure what "tape it off" means.

 

[Peter_C]

I wouldn't recommend Spectralock or any epoxy grout for a non-professional tiler. Mapei Keracolor or Laticrete Colorbase are both more than adequate and far easier to work with.

A kitchen scale makes splitting the epoxy into smaller batches that are far easier to work with. Once you know the weights you can break it down into 8th's or whatever one is comfortable working with, again depending on what size is purchased. I use the mid sized kits. Epoxy sure makes cleanup easier and it seems to be more flexible than regular grout, meaning less breaking out.

For the future just use drywall and Schluter Systems Kerdi or no drywall and 1/2" Kerdi board. Far superior to Redgard, and I have used many different systems, and now only use Schluter Systems.

Make sure to put a niche in for a professional look, plus they are super useful. Schluter makes a nice niche that is easy to install as you are tiling. You can decide what height to put it at and location once you have your tiles started. Often though pre-planning may include moving or cutting studs in advance to center it, or put the niche into a more preferred location.

Center the tiles, then cut the outside tiles. A laser really helps get everything dialed in. You can decide how far outside the tub you want them to go. Did you get edge tiles? Or are you going to utilize a Schluter edging? Are you going to tile the walls outside the shower? Like behind the toilet and sink?

What are you going to do for a shower door or curtain? My personal preference is for a bowed curtain. Makes the room feel larger than a glass door, and the bow makes the shower inside feel larger.

Personally I wouldn't use that shelf. I see it as a hazard. I would either be bumping my head or elbows into it. No thanks, not in a small shower, OUCH! A niche is preferable.

 

[Peter Kelly]

I'm not sure what "tape it off" means.

Cover the exposed parts of the shelf with blue tape before installing. Acrylic modified thinset and grout can also be a headache to clean off of stainless.

 

[Ron B]

Peter mentioned using a scale for epoxy.  I am a DIYer, but here is my story.

Once I bought some tile from a contractor going out of business.  It was beautiful marble tile, with green veins in it.  Getting ready to set it, I was reading the back of the bag mortar instructions, and it said to not use a water based mortar on certain green and black marbles, as they will curl.  After more research, there was something called "serpentine" and if a water based mortar is used, the edges will curl up.  I did not want to see my tiles curl, so we used epoxy mortar.  That hurt the billfold, but we used postal scales to measure out the mixing amounts.  That epoxy stuff is very hard to work with, but is unbelievable.  I had one tile I could not live with, and had to cut it out.  I had to cut it down to 1/4" chunks, otherwise the hardiboard came up with it. 

The project looked great once we were done, but it was a long process. 

Hopefully your project will go better than mine. 

 

[Koamolly]

I'm not sure what "tape it off" means.

Seal with tape from plastic behind backer to tub, caulk backer to tub, caulk tile to tub.

 

[Koamolly]

Like Peter said a laser is really helpful. 

 

[Cheese]

I'm with the others on the use of epoxy, I used Bostik Quartzlock 2 in the kitchen and while it is more work than conventional grout it is well worth the extra effort. The secret is to do small sections at a time because it cures faster and hazes over harder which makes it tougher to remove. It doesn't stain, it's non-porous and cleans up with a damp rag.

I also think you need to use a special rubber float for epoxy grout.

I'm going to start the bathroom soon and will go back to epoxy.

 

[Packard]

I'm not sure what "tape it off" means.

Seal with tape from plastic behind backer to tub, caulk backer to tub, caulk tile to tub.

I would not have thought of that.  Thanks. 

 

[Dan C]

Those shelves are plenty strong when mortared in with the thinset. Two things that come to mind from a few tiling projects over the years-
- Depending on the grout joint you go with you may need to notch the tile above or preferably below to accommodate the thickness of the shelf and allow for grout. 
- even if it doesnt come until after you start you could tile to one row below the self on that wall and tile the rest.  If you choose to use a ledger board to start your tiles, you have a second day of tiling anyway.

I was planning on using the same type of grout as I used for the floors (but in white to go with the light-colored "marble" finish). 

It does not appear that the Schluter shelf will arrive by this weekend, so I might put this off until the next week.

The shelf will mount on the wall opposite the shower head and high enough that it probably won't get wet.  I am hoping that the thinset will be sufficient to hold the shelf in place.

 

[Packard]

The grout line spacers I bought are supposed to be 1/8".  The steel shelf measures 0.125" on my vernier.  It should go in without any modifications.  I have not measured the spacers.  I will do that before I start setting the tiles.

 

[tiralie]

The grout line spacers I bought are supposed to be 1/8".  The steel shelf measures 0.125" on my vernier.  It should go in without any modifications.  I have not measured the spacers.  I will do that before I start setting the tiles.

I would want to seal the top side and underside of the shelf as shown in the picture which would drop the shelf an 1/8" or so. Putting it in with the tile butting up against I think would will make it difficult to seal against water sitting in the small space between the shelf and the tile. Just my thoughts looking at this.
Tim

 

[Packard]

I will be placing the shelf out of the stream of water.  I doubt that it will get wet other than what drips off the shampoo bottle.  Plus, in the 24 years I have lived here, it has been used about 6 times.  I am fixing it up for resale in the next few years.  I would like to do it right though and for some reason tile work intimidates me even though it seems to work out OK each time.  I should be able to lay a thin bead of clear silicon around the perimeter of the shelf.  You are correct, there will be no grout there.  But the wall is waterproofed and the 6 mil plastic backs up the cement board.  So I think I am in pretty good shape.

I've only ever laid floor tile, so I posted here for tips on the vertical installation.  I have images in my mind of the tiles peeling off the wall as I press them in place.  Each time I press on tile, two more start peeling off.  It gets like the scene in Fantasia where the guy with the mop keeps multiplying.

 

[Koamolly]

As long as you support first row of tiles on wall so they can’t sag I don’t think you’ll chase any problem with them peeling off. I back butter all tiles with a thin layer of thinset.  They can slide but are hard to pry off once pushed into toweled thinset. Use a ledger board to support first row. 

I used epoxy grout recently for the first time. I thought it wasn’t as difficult as some people suggest. I did small weighed batches and used a timer on my phone.  I always had finished applying before timer went off.  Had time to clean tools before it started setting. You get a system down for wiping and buffing tiles.  Side lighting helps to see residue.  Vinegar removes the unset epoxy film.  I’d use the recommended mix of 2 gallons water to half up vinegar for initial wiping/leveling/cleaning.  Dampened a microfiber towel with full strength vinegar to wipe the tiles being careful to stay a bit away from grout lines.  It is more time consuming but less maintenance later.  I will probably only use epoxy in the future.  If you’ll be selling, I’m not sure saying the shower has epoxy grout would make a difference.  But you could learn on this shower for next time. 

I used these ceramic niches.  Very nice looking if the sizing works for you.
https://shower-shelf.com/

I believe horizontal grab bars could also hold shampoo bottles etc., and wash clothes.  Be stronger than those imbedded stainless shelves.  Grohe has some nice ones in their Essential line. 
https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-2.../ref=sr_1_5?crid=309FLBZRVDKQK&keywords=grohe+grab+bar+24&qid=1652225391&sprefix=Grohe+grab%2Caps%2C197&sr=8-5

I think West Marine/Amazon carries removable railing clamps in that size or make your own.  Then you can clamp anything you want to them!
https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Dog-3271...ocphy=9032812&hvtargid=pla-583527782568&psc=1

Good luck!

 

[Packard]

I chose the shelves because there are plumbing and electrical in the long wall (60" side) and there is plumbing in the wall that contains the shower mixer.  That leaves the wall opposite to the shower head.  But that is an exterior wall and anything sitting on a shelf in a niche in that wall might as well be sitting in a refrigerator.  The shelf eliminates that issue. 

(There is a half bath on the other side of the 60" side of the wall.  The studs are not evenly placed so with the plumbing and stud spacing issue, the shelves seemed to address that issue.  In any event they are coming in on Friday.