New to Saw Stop. Table flatness question....?

[Iceclimber]

After a long winter waiting to get my new to me industrial SawStop it is in!

After much hemming and howing about how the hell i would get this saw through my garden/yard over some giant stepping stones then up a 10" threshold and down three 10" stairs and the army of men and machines i would need i did it by myself.

To be honest it was very very easy. I was able to get it in my truck on a pallet laying on its side with a fork truck. I used a 8' long 2' wide LVL to slide it on the pallet out of my truck. I the. Stood the saw back upright, slid it onto a dolly. After that i shuffled a few small scraps of old plywood through my garden. I then made a ramp up the threshold and another down the threshold and into my basement. I think the whole thing took me two hours including a 1 hour round trip drive to pick up the saw and building the ramp thing.

My phone is dead at the moment so pictures will follow. Tbh the saw is old and fairly used so its far from a shop queen. Still I'm stocked as other than the little problem bellow it went together great and everything checks out great.

My question is this. How flat do the cast iron tables have to be? I am inclined to think the answer is perfectly flat but i really don't know.

So here is the problem or situation. The main table is perfectly flat. As are the side extension tables on their own. However when i put on both side extension tables and then throw a 4' level across the table length wise and then corner to corner i can see about 1/16 inch of light under the level at the blade or in the center of the table. The 1/16 tapers out either direction but not in any hurry.

So give it to me straight how bad is this?

 

[rst]

It is not unusual to have to shim the table extensions to get them to be flat.  I've worked in industrial settings and we always had to check and adjust for flatness, even with $20,000 plus machines.  A little shimming and hole enlargement is considered normal.

 

[Iceclimber]

Ok but if the tables dish or cup upward from the outside edges i would have to shim them from the top betwwen the main table and the side extension tables.

As i figure it this would creat a small gap or void between the tables on the topside of the tables or cutting surface.

Maybe i am thinking about shimming all wrong?

 

[fortrout]

double check your straight edge? 1/16 seems like a lot.

 

[Birdhunter]

I also have a Sawstop Industrial. I have called their Customer Support for questions, but never for a problem as the saw has been flawless. I have found their support to be exceptional. I suggest you call them for advice.

The two guys who set up my saw had to adjust the left extension piece. The adjustment did leave a tiny gap. The only effect of the gap is that it collects a little sawdust.

 

[Iceclimber]

My straight edge is straight

So is this a deal breaker, like did buy someone else's lemon or problem?

I guess i could purchase new tables from SawStop but then this saw is getting near in price to what a new one would had cost.

Well maybe not quite. I payed $1600 for it. I did buy the industrial mobile base for it and i will buy the more up to date blade guard along with build a new side extension table for it and new blade. So i guess to date I'm about $2300 into this saw. Still ot bad as it is the industrial 5 horse but add new tables to it and man that could really stink!

double check your straight edge? 1/16 seems like a lot.

 

[Birdhunter]

Again, I suggest you call Sawstop. Is there a Sawdtop dealer who has experienced installers in your area. The guys who set up my saw do several a day. Guys like hat could probably diagnose the problem and let you know what it takes to fix it.

 

[micknc]

This is a well-documented issue with SawStop's extensions. Do a search and you'll find lots of references. The assembly manual for the table has instructions for using the fence rails to flatten the extensions relative to the table.  Mine is the same way. Doing it by myself, I used a cable suspended from the outer holes in the wings with weights to pull the wings down until I could crank down on the rail bolts. Took a while, but it worked. Others have braced it with 2x4s between either the floor or the ceiling to force it the direction it needs to go. Seems crazy for a saw in this price range, but it is what it is.

 

[Iceclimber]

Really.

I thought the quality of the Sawstop was supposed to be the Bees?

Thanks for the tip.

This is a well-documented issue with SawStop's extensions. Do a search and you'll find lots of references. The assembly manual for the table has instructions for using the fence rails to flatten the extensions relative to the table.  Mine is the same way. Doing it by myself, I used a cable suspended from the outer holes in the wings with weights to pull the wings down until I could crank down on the rail bolts. Took a while, but it worked. Others have braced it with 2x4s between either the floor or the ceiling to force it the direction it needs to go. Seems crazy for a saw in this price range, but it is what it is.

 

[micknc]

I think you'll soon forget all about it once you have it corrected.  The saw is top notch - smooth, quiet and very precise.

 

[butzla]

Sounds to me like the extensions are flat but the edges are not ground 90 degrees to the top?  The pictures you posted have too much of a gap for my liking.  I have the PCS and had the same problem,  although not so bad.  I just loosened the bolts on the extension table enough so I could tap down on them with a rubber mallet until the gap disappeared.  The result is there is a step down at the point where the main table contacts the extension table, but out at the ends it is flush. 

That will work fine but if you want to be anal about it, call a local machine shop and have the edges reground to 90.

Nice machine!  You are going to love it.

 

[jeh]

It is not unusual to have to shim the table extensions to get them to be flat.  I've worked in industrial settings and we always had to check and adjust for flatness, even with $20,000 plus machines.  A little shimming and hole enlargement is considered normal.

What did you use for shim material? Reason I ask is that I have a Powermatic planer with an issue similar to what [member=41244]Iceclimber[/member] describes. My SawStop is perfectly flat.

[member=41244]Iceclimber[/member]
You got quite the deal on your ICS.

 

[Iceclimber]

Thanks for the input guys,

I feel much better as it is clear this is not all that abnormal nor a deal breaker.

When putting the saw together common sense told me shims would resolve the problem. I just did not like the idea of any gaps on the upside of my tables.

It is what it is though so i guess ill have to deal.

I have a feeling it wont be to the weekend before i get back to this.

 

[Birdhunter]

Many years ago, I bought a sheet of very thin (less than note book paper) steel shim material. I cut strips and add layers until I get the effect I'm after. I have no clue where this stuff came from. Sorry.

 

[fshanno]

You'd think they would err on the side of shimming from the bottom. 

Maybe this is fate telling you to go ahead and get that nice sliding table SawStop is offering.  Maybe SS will cut you a deal to make up for the trouble.  Maybe sell it to you factory direct at cost and turn a problem into a positive success story.

 

[Iceclimber]

Funny you should mention the slider. I have had my eye on it and bern considering it.

Being the left table is the one that is more off the sliding table could work,out perfect.

Two things are stopping me from going that route. Te first being the fence stop. Its pretty flimsy and has some slop or play in it. Im not really crazy about that. Seems pretty important  to me that it have zero slop!

And third is i just purchased a Felder AD741 jointer planer combo and I'm kinda broke as it was just about 11K on sale....

Crap i still need a new blade, throat plate, dado stack, dado throat plate and new blade guard for the SawStop.I wont be buying any of that till say September as the Felder machine arrives in August and until it does every extra penny i have will need to go toward paying for that machine.

Oh and i got the tables pretty much perfect tonight using the rails to manipulate them as was suggested. They are not perfect but i think into small feeler gauge territory now.

You'd think they would err on the side of shimming from the bottom. 

Maybe this is fate telling you to go ahead and get that nice sliding table SawStop is offering.  Maybe SS will cut you a deal to make up for the trouble.  Maybe sell it to you factory direct at cost and turn a problem into a positive success story.

 

[butzla]

The Sawstop slider is awesome!  It's just that the directions are horrid and don't go into any detail on how to tweak the stops.  I posted a thread over on SMC on how I went about tweaking mine.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?229331-Sawstop-Sliding-Crosscut-Table-(Flip-Up-Stop-Fix)

 

[Cheese]

[member=652]JimH2[/member]

What did you use for shim material? Reason I ask is that I have a Powermatic planer with an issue similar to what [member=41244]Iceclimber[/member] describes. My SawStop is perfectly flat.

Any of the industrial stores McMaster-Carr, Fastenal, Grainger, sell shim stock. They use it all the time to shim large industrial equipment (coaters, slitters, winders) to a level condition. It's usually available in stainless, brass or steel.
I use plastic shim stock for lighter weight applications such as shimming jigs & fixtures. Plastic shim stock is available in 12" x 24" sheets, cuts with a razor knife or scissors and is easily hole punched.

 

[Iceclimber]

Pretty sure i see the slider in my future.

Probably not till next winter as i already have about 18K in tool purchases to make between now and next winter.

Still it is nice and now having the saw the $1000 seems well worth it.

The Sawstop slider is awesome!  It's just that the directions are horrid and don't go into any detail on how to tweak the stops.  I posted a thread over on SMC on how I went about tweaking mine.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?229331-Sawstop-Sliding-Crosscut-Table-(Flip-Up-Stop-Fix)

 

[micknc]

It surprises me that the slider manual is so bad, being that the installation manual and everything else related to it for the saw are so vastly superior to any other manual for a machine I've ever worked on - and I've been in the woodworking machinery business for 30 years!  They must have rushed it to get in on the market for IWF.  I was flat blown away by the detail of the installation manual and hardware packaging that came with the saw.