Newbie question: can MFT and TSC replace my table saw?

[prjones]

Hey folks! I'm a 30-year hobbyist woodworker who's brand new to the Festool ecosystem. I'm already in love with my new TSC55 and the CT36...I cannot believe how LITTLE DUST THERE IS! And the way everything works together?! I'm hooked.

So here's the deal: I live in a condo with a large balcony that is my makeshift workshop for projects. Basically like setting up on a job site and then tearing down each day. So I'm looking for every efficiency I can get. Space is a premium of course, and keeping things clean as I go really helps make the whole experience more enjoyable. I've been using a Dewalt job site tablesaw that works great but, of course, doesn't have the ability to capture dust like my Festool tools do.

Do you guys think I could ditch the Dewalt and get just as accurate cuts with an MFT, TSC55, and the 1400 router as my main setup? Would love to hear from others who've made the switch, pros cons, etc. Thanks all!

 

[Packard]

I originally bought my track saw to break dow plywood for final cuts on the table saw.

I have found that if I work carefully, I can cut to final dimensions with the track saw.

Originally I thought that the track saw’s inability to cut dadoes would be limiting, but it is easy enough to migrate to dowels or dominoes instead.  Or use the track and your router to cut dadoes.

The difficulty lies in cutting small pieces.  The table saw has a distinct advantage cutting narrow pieces.

You can get by without a table saw, but you will need some additional equipment to do so.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I agree with Packard. But Festool now has a good solution for "small" but very capable table saw that packs up in a Systainer, which is very nice for working those smaller components.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would pretty much duplicate [member=74278]Packard[/member] statements. It definitely can be done, but it will take more effort and work-arounds, like fixtures to hold smaller parts.
You really need both in a cabinet shop, but eliminating the clean-up time, for a guy doing hobby work, it should make up the difference.
A lot depends on what you do, but there should be a way to make it work. The OF1400 will definitely help in that regard.

 

[SoonerFan]

Like others, I agree with [member=74278]Packard[/member].  You can use an MFT and a TSC to replace a table saw but it takes some addition items, some practice and some compromises.  At our old house I used a TS55, MFT and saw horses and foam board for 7 years.  I did not have space for a table saw.  It worked fine.  I was able to complete everything I started.  Now we have dedicated shop with a table saw in the center.  The table saw shines at thin rips, dados, and quickly and easily sizing panels.  For me having a table saw makes me a better wood worker but no it is not a requirement.

 

[Packard]

From what I read before I bought the track saw, that workers in Europe manage a workshop with just the track saw for cutting.

Heck, I see people posting full kitchen makeovers using nothing but Kreg saw guides (not their new track saw) and pocket hole joinery.

And my 1953 era bathroom vanity was site built with hand saws and nails driven home with a hammer.

My DeWalt router works fine with the Festool track with the required adapter.  Entire cabinets have been built using Kreg pocket hole joinery.

I am confident that you can proceed without a table saw.

Describe your next project and we (any or all of us) will describe how to build it without a table saw.

 

[makpacman]

A friend of mine turned me onto tracksaws a few years back. It was during a conversation about the latest jig I'd built or bought for my cabinetsaw. I'll never forget(though now maybe I can forgive), when he said, "Check out tracksaws. You might not even need that big saw". I felt insulted!

Well, I still have that saw, and all the accessories and jigs for it, but now I lok at it as a backup. If my brains not working and I really can't figure out a guide rail solution that produces 95% of the quality with the same or less effort then begrudgingly, I'll go dust off the table, remove the coffee rings and plug it in.

But that happens rarely these days. And the accuracy of the individual components for my woodworking projects are as good or better than I was able to get with the cabinetsaw.

So buying a tracksaw's just the beginning, ya? It takes time and patience to build new skills to go along with the tools and perhaps a new approach to handling materials and workflow. But once steeped in the dark arts, you may very well realize a tablesaw isn't necessary for all woodshops.

Advice to my adult children who do this more as a hobby than work was if anything,  to get a very small tablsaw. One that can be easily stored away because rail based techniques are usually preferable.

Enjoy your woodworking.

 

[WillettBarrel]

Basically like setting up on a job site and then tearing down each day. So I'm looking for every efficiency I can get. Space is a premium of course, and keeping things clean as I go really helps make the whole experience more enjoyable.

I'm in a very similar situation and use a TS 55 and MFT almost exclusively. I have a CMS with TS insert fo a table saw setup, but rarely use it. With the OF1400 in hand, if you get a rail square, parrallel guides and some means of repeating thin rips on the MFT, I don't think you'll miss the table saw at all.

Festool's parrallel guide are nice in that they are tooless set up. But they need to overhang the table (instead of lying flat on it) which creates a minimum cut length. I've heard good things about TSO's parrallel guides, and don't think they have the same problem, but have never used them myself.

A large triangle square can facilitate repeat cuts on the MFT, when cutting thinner than the track width. I use Benchdogs UK precision triangle; it's specifically designed to integrate with the MFT for thin cuts. I'm sure other triangle squares could be used in similar fashion.

Oddly enough, the tool I miss the most from my MFT set up isn't the table saw; it's the sliding compound miter saw. Specifically, cutting crown moulding is unnecessarily complicated on the MFT (unless there's some wizard's trick I'm unaware of, which is very possible).

 

[prjones]

With the OF1400 in hand, if you get a rail square, parrallel guides and some means of repeating thin rips on the MFT, I don't think you'll miss the table saw at all.

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful replies - loving this group already!
I'm not sure [member=79245]WillettBarrel[/member], but it looks like you could arrange the MFT fence and hinged rail in such a way to make repeated thin rips using the fence stop system. But that's something I would have to play with.

Here's a couple of pictures of my setup (sans MFT - headed to Woodcraft today to pick one up!). I built 95% of the cabinet boxes here with just the TSC 55. I did cut the panels oversize and left final dimensioning to the DeWalt. When doing that is when I got the idea about getting rid of it. The TSC was SO accurate, clean, square, and fun to use. And I was just laying the panels on my folding DeWalt table and using the rail. The final boxes are the squarest thing I've ever made - diagonals are within .1 MM accuracy. Blew my mind!

 

[waho6o9]

Nice looking cabinets  prjones. Keep doing the good work!

 

[ear3]

[member=81653]prjones[/member]  Even if you are primarily MFT based, if you're going to be doing a lot of sheet work, I have found it helpful to get a very good, large square -- something like the Woodpeckers 26" precision square.  Useful when dealing with panels that are larger than the workable surface of the MFT for creating one square corner off which to reference subsequent cuts -- just slide the guide rail up against it and cut.  Worth every penny in my opinion, especially since Woodpeckers will fix or replace it if it ever goes out of square.
 

With the OF1400 in hand, if you get a rail square, parrallel guides and some means of repeating thin rips on the MFT, I don't think you'll miss the table saw at all.

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful replies - loving this group already!
I'm not sure [member=79245]WillettBarrel[/member], but it looks like you could arrange the MFT fence and hinged rail in such a way to make repeated thin rips using the fence stop system. But that's something I would have to play with.

Here's a couple of pictures of my setup (sans MFT - headed to Woodcraft today to pick one up!). I built 95% of the cabinet boxes here with just the TSC 55. I did cut the panels oversize and left final dimensioning to the DeWalt. When doing that is when I got the idea about getting rid of it. The TSC was SO accurate, clean, square, and fun to use. And I was just laying the panels on my folding DeWalt table and using the rail. The final boxes are the squarest thing I've ever made - diagonals are within .1 MM accuracy. Blew my mind!

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I actually tested this out in the summer before last when I had a "temporary gara-shop" pending my shop building being built. I had sold my big slider because moving it twice and paying to store for at least a year made no sense, so with all the other large tools crammed into the slightly oversize two vehicle size garage, I said to myself, "lets try just using the MFT, tracksaw, band saw and CMS and not have a table saw for a bit". That lasted about a month and a half as I was constantly frustrated with the needs of cutting small things safely.  I ended up buying a used and cut down SS PCS and crammed that in for the duration. But in the end, it really does come down to what kind of project work you do. Try working without a table saw and see if you can make the components you need to make for your own projects, both functionally and safely. If yes...no need to buy a table saw. If no...you have compact options, including the Festool like I mentioned previously.

 

[rmwarren]

[member=81653]prjones[/member] first off [welcome] to the FOG.

I'm in a similar situation, working in 120 fully crammed square feet of space, likewise I have a Dewalt jobsite saw but seldom pull it out and then only in nice weather where I can work outside. This forced me to come up with ways to cut small and narrow stuff. Fair warning, I spend more time tinkering with this stuff rather than working with wood...

This setup is specific to narrow rips. Basically, you need the rip to be under the rail and the stock to the righthand side. A plywood jig can do the same thing.

There's also a rabbit hole thread delving into narrow rips.

Lastly, a setup for cutting small parts, it's easy to batch out really small parts, again with a fence & stop that puts the small part under the rail and the stock to the right.

If you search you'll find lots of threads in the tracksaw-versus-tablesaw genre. Have fun & see you around.

RMW

 

[Packard]

I googled “The smallest woodworking shop” and got a ton of hits.  And lots of videos.  Probably a weath of ideas in them.
https://www.google.com/search?q=smallest wood working shop&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m

And this one, but Festool-specific:
https://www.google.com/search?q=festool+smallest+woodworking+shop&client=firefox-b-1-m&sca_esv=09421e5d5db007db&sxsrf=ACQVn0_xfnXrNrWwMh5dQPt_xex7SqgJDA%3A1712429158536&ei=ZpgRZt60IPKbptQPm-6SiA4&ved=0ahUKEwje_8ndn66FAxXyjYkEHRu3BOEQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=festool+smallest+woodworking+shop&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

I would probably build two or three work-bench height cabinets on casters.  These could hold all your equipment and be placed side by side to make a work surface. 

There may be better ideas in the google searches. 

I started my picture framing business in my co-op.  I made stands on casters for that purpose. 

It worked well, except for the noise.  And noise may end up being your biggest obstacle.

Condos and Co-ops have HOAs and they love throwing their weight around and hassling tenants.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=81653]prjones[/member] that has to qualify in at least the top 10 of views from a shop space.

 

[prjones]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] Thanks! We're 200 feet in the air and a 5 minute commute to work, which is unheard of the DC area.

[member=74278]Packard[/member] Great tips - thinks! Yes, we have an HOA, but they allow "contractor noise" during certain hours, so as long as I abide by those I think I'll be ok. We've live here a year and so far so good. But of course when I win that Powerball tonight, I'll be building my dream shop in Portugal.  [eek] [tongue]

 

[prjones]

[member=81653]prjones[/member]  Even if you are primarily MFT based, if you're going to be doing a lot of sheet work, I have found it helpful to get a very good, large square -- something like the Woodpeckers 26" precision square.  Useful when dealing with panels that are larger than the workable surface of the MFT for creating one square corner off which to reference subsequent cuts -- just slide the guide rail up against it and cut.  Worth every penny in my opinion, especially since Woodpeckers will fix or replace it if it ever goes out of square.
 
Thanks [member=37411]ear3[/member]! Great tip. I've been bookmarking a lot of Woodpeckers gear and I'll be adding this one to the list.

 

[Hawkeye0001]

You might wanna check out Peter Millard's "10 Minute Workshop", he's the unrivaled king of tracksaw ingenuity and ran a fitted furniture business out of a workshop the size of your balcony with nothing but a TS 55 tracksaw and an MFT. He has several series regarding tracksaw use in small workshops and offers tons of tricks in short videos (10 minutes, go figure...).

Bottom line of it: you can absolutely live without a table saw but you'll require some thinking outside the box and workarounds/jigs to get repeat, accurate cuts (particularly the moment your stock becomes narrower than the track itself).

 

[WillettBarrel]

it looks like you could arrange the MFT fence and hinged rail in such a way to make repeated thin rips using the fence stop system.

I think your idea could work for parrallel cuts. I don't see it working for square cuts. But you could make one,  reset the fence, and then make the other. Sure.

 

[prjones]

Hey guys! Tiny shop in the sky update:
I picked up my new MFT/3 from Rockler and got it all set up and square. While I'm sure it's 'technically' portable, in reality, it's a beast.

So my lovely and gracious wife had an idea - just use my studio (i.e., 2nd bedroom in our condo) and don't try to set up shop outside AT ALL. Mic drop to the rain we've been having. (BTW - Because we're an end unit on the top floor, we have no upstairs neighbors, one wall of the studio is an outside wall, and only one wall is shared with the rest of the building - with a stairwell between me and our neighbor.)

I did just that yesterday to cut and install the stretchers, finish sand and paint two new base cabinets - and it was perfect. I set up a decibel meter in the main living area of the house and with the CT36, TSC55, and/or 150 sander running, the sound level NEVER went above 53.1 db, or a "quiet home" according to the app. And my 2nd worry of a coating of dust everywhere? NONE. Not a speck. Like for real. My computer/design station is 4 feet away and the CT36 caught all of it. Routing will be the big test, but for now, I'm stunned.

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