Paint for kitchen cabinets / bare wood Sherwin Williams or BM for HVLP?

[sanjay]

Hi,

I have done a lot of searching and plan to spray lots of kitchen cabinets (some bare wood and some re-finished/prepped) with my Fuji MiniMite.  It seems SW Chem aqua is one of the best paints for HVLP spraying.  Is this correct, and are there any altnertives from BM i should consider?

Thanks!

 

[Peter Kelly]

Not sure if BM has anything comparable but Kem Aqua should only go through an airless sprayer, never an HVLP as you'll get too much heat and air in the mix and the material will dry before it even hits the thing you're painting resulting in tiny air bubbles and a generally not smooth finish. Sherwin should also be able to recommend you a shellac-based primer.

Kem Aqua is an excellent coating otherwise.

 

[tjbnwi]

I’ve sprayed thousands of gallons and have trained many to spray Kem Aqua and Kem Aqua Plus through an HVLP. I own a Fuji Q4 and a Q5 and 5 Fuji guns, all with PPS systems. Never had a finish issue. Then again, I’ve only been spraying finishes for 56+ years, no telling what tomorrow will bring.

To this day the Fuji’s still get used, mostly for field work where I’m spraying touching up finishes that have been sprayed through a Graco FF 395 AAA PC or a Graco Merkur 15:1 air driven AAA. There is no difference in the dried films. The reason I’ve moved away form the Fuji’s in the shop is speed. The AAA’s are that much faster when applying a finish than the HVLP’s, even with a pressure pot connected to the HVLP gun. In a week we’ll apply 100 gallons or more of primer, finish or a combination of the two.

About 2 years ago I moved from KA+ to SW Hydro Plus. KA+ is an acrylic, HP is a urethane that can be treated with a hardener.

About 7 months ago I hired a young lady who had never held a spray gun in her life. Now her finishes are flawless, she can rebuild any one of the guns, be it HVLP or AAA. She has seen me rebuild a AAA pump but has not had to rebuild one here self—-yet.

The little bubbles are called micro foaming, they’re caused by improper air introduction. Get the air right and they’ll go away. On a HVLP gun, this may mean mixing air caps to the needle and nozzle combination. On a AAA, there air regulators and pinch valves to control air introduction.

BM owns Cabinet Coat, closest BM product to KA+.

If you can get KA+ use it, DO NOT in any way mix KA+ and KA. DO NOT apply one over the other.

Use SW Gen II primer.

Make sure you prep properly, this is where most of the magic that gives you a great finish occurs.

Learn to use the Ford 4 cup that came with the Fuji.

What gun did you get with the Fuji?

Tom

 

 

[woodwise]

[member=1583]Tom[/member] thanks for taking the time to share. Very informative post.
I was just setting up to paint some cabinets myself.

 

[sanjay]

Hi, thank you all for taking the time to reply and your explanations. I have a Fuji mini mite 4 woth both the gravity fed and the the bottom feed, and have the 3M gravity feed cups to fit the gf gun. I will be using. It sounds like KA is not what I want!  I have also seen scuff x being used?  I am leaning towards getting something I can thin myself rather then KA.  Are there any other options for paint I should look at?

 

[sanjay]

I visited a SW store and they recommended the SW advance.  I think i am leaning towards the BM Scuff X as that is something I have been used sprayed before. are there any other options i should look at?

 

[Packard]

I’ve only used PPG’s Breakthrough! and Benjamin Moore’s Advance. 

Breakthrough! (PPG includes the “!” in the name) dries very fast and you can re-coat in a matter of hours.  But it does not level as well as Advance.

The PPG store went out of business so I switched.

Advance levels really well, but I have not mastered vertical surfaces and I sometimes get runs.  It cures very slowly—12 hours between coats.  But that slow dry time seems to be associated with its excellent self-leveling qualities.

White and light colors cure very hard.  The dark colors take longer to cure (I like 200 hours before using) and never get as hard as the light colors.

The high gloss versions are rated for exterior applications.  The other versions are interior only.

I shoot with HVLP equipment.  I have an airless unit but it feels like its a runaway train.  The HVLP is easier to use.  Thinning to the right viscosity is essential for HVLP from my experience.

 

[krudawg]

Hi,

I have done a lot of searching and plan to spray lots of kitchen cabinets (some bare wood and some re-finished/prepped) with my Fuji MiniMite.  It seems SW Chem aqua is one of the best paints for HVLP spraying.  Is this correct, and are there any altnertives from BM i should consider?

Thanks!

Chem Aqua does not exist in any SW store in the Goodyear, AZ area.  I went to two stores and when I asked for Chem Aqua, nobody knew what I was asking for - crickets

 

[tjbnwi]

Hi,

I have done a lot of searching and plan to spray lots of kitchen cabinets (some bare wood and some re-finished/prepped) with my Fuji MiniMite.  It seems SW Chem aqua is one of the best paints for HVLP spraying.  Is this correct, and are there any altnertives from BM i should consider?

Thanks!

Chem Aqua does not exist in any SW store in the Goodyear, AZ area.  I went to two stores and when I asked for Chem Aqua, nobody knew what I was asking for - crickets

This is the store you have to get the finishes from. It is a different animal than paint.

Store #794380
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/st...=local_listing&utm_campaign=tag_local_listing

My new shop building will be across the parking lot from the Sherwin Williams Commercial store for Colorado Springs, sounds great right??? The commercial store does not have any of the finishes we use (can’t get them either), the orders will still come down from the Denver Product Finishes store.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

I have done a lot of searching and plan to spray lots of kitchen cabinets (some bare wood and some re-finished/prepped) with my Fuji MiniMite.  It seems SW Chem aqua is one of the best paints for HVLP spraying.  Is this correct, and are there any alternatives from BM I should consider?

Actually, if you pull up the Kem Aqua product data sheet, it will provide the parameters for shooting the stuff with a HVLP gun.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777053836&lang=2

 

[Packard]

The dark green cabinets (Advance, satin) never dried as hard as I would like.  I recently added a topcoat (wipe on poly).  The slight amber shift in color did not seem to affect the dark green. 

I generally allow 200 hours for a 90% cure with oil based poly.  I expect it will cure as hard as other projects I have done (which is very hard).

After it is fully cured, I will apply a paste wax with 0000 steel wool.  I will post an image when it is complete.

 

[rjboch]

The dark green cabinets (Advance, satin) never dried as hard as I would like.  I recently added a topcoat (wipe on poly).  The slight amber shift in color did not seem to affect the dark green. 

I generally allow 200 hours for a 90% cure with oil based poly.  I expect it will cure as hard as other projects I have done (which is very hard).

After it is fully cured, I will apply a paste wax with 0000 steel wool.  I will post an image when it is complete.

Packard - Out of curiosity, why are you top-coating BM Advance and adding a paste wax? I thought the BM paint did not require a top coat. Also, are you concerned about kitchen generated heat (e.g., cooktop, DW, etc.) impacting the wax or issues with refinishing later? Thanks for your insight.

 

[Packard]

White and light colors cure as hard (or nearly as hard) as oil based poly.  But the dark colors do not cure nearly as hard. 

I used Advance in a forest green in satin.  It dried overnight.  I waited a week to put the cabinet into service, but the finish was not hard enough so I put a movers blanket over the piece and left it for a month.  The finish was easily scuffed and quickly looked shabby. 

I scuffed the surface with 400 grit paper and used wipe on poly (50% poly + 50% mineral spirits).  It looks good.  I will wait 7 days to test the hardness, but I expect it to be fine. 

But note that only gloss poly works for dark colors.  The satin or semi-gloss use a dulling agent (mica?) that makes the dark colors, especially black, look muddy.  Black finish looks like gray when using satin clear. 

I got some ebony Polyshades to mix for a wipe on finish on black cabinets.  I have not tried that yet.

The 0000 steel wool application of paste wax (with vigorous rubbing) knocks some of the sheen off of the gloss finish.  It also leaves it luxurious to the touch, and keeps clean longer. 

It might be an issue in the future if I have to refinish the cabinet.  The wax would have to be removed entirely for good adhesion. 

I think an even less glossy finish would result from using 800 or 1200 grit and wax.  I have not tested this.

I have gotten rather enchanted with the feel of the waxed surfaces.  I don’t know if it is because of the wax or the smoothness created by the 0000 steel wool.  I would not try to rub out paint without adding some sort of lube.  The wax works great. 

The tactile effect is greater than the visual effect.  Try it on something you have already produced.  It is time consuming, so pick a small item.

The biggest thing I have waxed is a 70 year old prime door that I had stripped of paint and re-finished.  It was probably 2 hours to do both sides.  Since the door was used as a barn door and gets touched frequently, I think it was worthwhile.

 

[rjboch]

Packard, Thanks for the response. Always interested to hear what others are doing to finish their projects. So many options and everyone does things a little differently. Please let us know how things turn out. Cheers!

 

[Packard]

I’ve only sprayed PPG’s Breakthrough! and B-M’s Advance.  Breakthrough! Dries very fast, but the local dealer went out of business. 

Advance sprays out nicer with my HVLP system. But the dark colors do not get sufficiently hard in my opinion, and that seems to apply to other brands as well.  So I am not inclined to do more experimenting.

Read: https://www.painttalk.com/threads/bm-advance-not-curing.98520/