Plywood drawers with dominos

[air19]

I've seen a number of youtube videos using the domino for plywood drawer construction so I thought I would try it.

I'm using 12mm baltic birch and am debating about using thru tenons.  I would like to try this with 5mm Sipo dominos for the visual contrast. 

Questions -

1.  I didn't find any 4mm Sipo dominos on the Festool website - do they exist?  I know I could make my own out of something like cherry also.

2.  I was thinking about setting up a jig to hold both boards to do the thru tenon in one go with the domino, BUT I'm not sure how deep I can go with the 4mm and 5mm cutters.  I measured the 4mm cutter and it looks like it will only go in 12mm so not usable to do a thru tenon through 12mm ply in one go with both boards.  The 5mm cutter looks like I can get a 25mm deep cut max so that would work good for this purpose.  Any issue in driving the cutter all the way in to it's maximum depth.  I'll go slow, concerned about heat and damaging the cutter bit. 

3.  Or should I just do the thru tenons by doing two separate domino plunges? 

4.  Or should I just give up on the idea of thru tenons? 

5.  I assume with 12mm ply that using 5mm dominos will be OK?  I know that the 4mm dominos hit the perfect 1/3 recommended ratio, but the 5mm have much better length and for thru tenons that extra length is a big advantage.

Thanks for your ideas.  I am fascinated with the idea of using dominos for drawers.     

 

[grbmds]

Doubt you will have any problems cutting through both thicknesses. However, I've never done it that way, preferring to cut each side of the drawer separately and then glue them up. They glue up perfectly square. The only thing you have to watch is that you reference the correct face and edge when cutting the Dominos. Practice on some scrap first is a great idea since you are new. Plus always mark the reference faces and edges with a mark that will leave no doubt in your mind which are the correct ones.

Shouldn't be a problem with 5mm Dominos. I've used them with that thickness of plywood before.

 

[bdiemer]

I use thru dominos frequently. I make them out of mahogany scraps. I don't gang cut anything. I do 2 separate mortises. I use a slightly (middle setting) oversize cut on the non show, and the exact cutter setting for the show side.  As previously stated, use practice cuts. Go for it...

 

[overanalyze]

Just made 5 drawers this way with 18mm ply. I prefer to use the tightest setting for both mortises. It feels like it really draws up the sides as you tap in the dominos. I did each mortise separate. Use a sacrificial scrap underneath the sides to prevent veneer tear out.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[Michael Kellough]

You can even use pre-finished ply for the sides.

After the glue is dry and you cut the surplus Domino (Lee Valley flush cut saw works great) you'll want to machine sand to get it perfectly smooth. Yes sanding will scuff the finish but not as bad as you think. I've found a wipe of MinWax Wipe-on-poly conceals the scuffs well enough for the side of a drawer.

 

[JCLP]

Here is how I make my drawer boxes. They are Baltic Birch 15mm thick. No dominoes visible when assembled.
Cheers,
JC
Drawer boxes ala domino

 

[air19]

Great feedback everyone.  I got my Festool Domino about a month ago and have done about 200 dominos so far.  I used to use a router mounted horizontally with a table moving in three dimensions to cut my slot mortises.  The biggest improvements with the domino machine for me are being able to bring the machine to larger pieces,  doing everything dust free, and cranking out dozens and dozens of these much quicker. 

I will definitely try the thru mortises now.  Probably do the cuts separately then in each piece. 

Thanks and I really liked seeing the pictures of your examples!

 

[eddomak]

Hi, I am also about to try out a carcass project with 12mm baltic birch and dominoes as well, and thought that 4mm was "best practice" due to the 1/3 rule.

The other thing I was wondering is whether it is possible to have the dominoes NOT show through on certain faces - I am thinking that even the 4mm cutter with a 10mm plunge depth (the minimum) is going to risk a blow-out? Anyone got any experience on how to join 12mm ply with dominos without showing the dominoes?

 

[bertv]

[member=26367]eddomak[/member]  The 4 mm cutter is a lot shorter than the other ones and it will only protrude from the DF with the two highest settings for depth (if I remember correctly). Using the lowest of these for the plunge into the face of 12 mm plywood and the other one (deeper) for the plunge into the side is safe.

 

[RKA]

And if it isn't, you can put a spacer on the guide rail to prevent it from reaching a full plunge. It was posted here about 2 years ago. Search Amazon for traxxas 3769 preload spacer. It comes with an assortment of 1, 2, 4 and 8mm spacers so it's quite handy to have in these situations and it's only a couple bucks.

 

[JCLP]

I have used these shims/spacers taped to the domino to alter the depth of plunge.Polypropylene Shims

Cheers,

 

[eddomak]

Thanks so much for your replies. I will do some test pieces to make sure it is all good.

I happen to also have an interest in RC cars so I may well have the Traxxas spacers or something similar already.  [big grin]

I am still in the design phase, and was considering mitred corners and using domino through tenons to strengthen it, and perhaps as a design feature. General method would be to glue the mitred box and then plunge and insert tenon once set. I have 2 alternatives:

1) Alternate the through tenons on the 1 sides of the mitred joins (ie 1st through tenon visible on side A, 2nd through tenon visible on side B further down the edge, 3rd tenon visible on side A even further down the edge, etc). I think this would give strength against stresses in different planes.

2) "Cross" the through tenons - so plunge through on Side A, glue tenon and wait for it to set. Plunge through on Side B in exactly the same spot - with the cutter cutting through 1st tenon, and then gluing in the 2nd tenon.

Would anyone see any issues with the 2nd option? I am suspecting that the result would have the end grain of the 1st domino glued to the 2nd domino, and thus may not be any stronger than just relying on the glued mitre without the dominos, in which case it would only be decorative?

 

[Dick Mahany]

Perfect timing.  I'm about to make about 20 drawers with 13mm prefinished baltic birch and this thread has been most helpful !

 

[air19]

I just finished making 14 drawers with thru dominos using 12mm baltic birch and I found this a great way to build a large number of drawers faster and with less error. 

I used 5mm x 30mm dominos, set my depth to 15mm.  So with a thru domino cut going thru one 12mm piece of ply and 15mm into the other, there was just a little (3mm) bit of domino sitting up that I used my Veritas flush cutting saw to trim off.  I also had my domiplate on using the 1/2" side.

Things I really liked about this technique:  1) much faster than any previous technique for all the joinery, 2) almost perfectly square boxes every time (with 14 drawers I only had 1 drawer I had to use a clamp to adjust the diagonals), 3) with the domiplate the slots were slightly off center which helped in assembly because there was only one right way for the pieces to go together, 4) I like the look of the thru dominos (just using the regular beech dominos, the end grain really pops and almost looks like cherry with a first coat of finish)

My only issues were on 2 drawers where I had a small part of the top birch veneer pop off.  Two parts of my technique caused this.  First on a couple of drawers I plunged too fast weakening the veneer around the domino slot.  Second I dry fit every thing and on my first drawer I pulled the domino back out and broke off some of the veneer.  After that I punched the dominos out through the bottom. 

I also used the 12mm baltic birch for my bottoms - I much prefer a thicker bottom than 1/4" ply and it looks nicer having a flush bottom.  And I banded the top exposed ply with 1/4" thick maple all the way around.  That was the slowest part of the whole process. 

Here are a couple of pictures. 

 

[Dick Mahany]

Nice work, I do like how the end grain on the standard beech dominos gives a contrast in color.  The details and pics are most helpful.

 

[JimD]

In a regular mortise and tenon joint, tenons 1/2 the thickness of the wood have been shown by tests reported in Wood magazine to be stronger than tenons 1/3 the wood thickness.  These joints are a bit different but I don't think 5mm is too thick going into 12mm plywood.

The drawers look nice.  I think they are a valid alternative.  My last kitchen cabinet was a small island and I used nominally 1/2 bb plywood and dovetailed all 4 corners.  Once the jig is set up I find them pretty quick to make.  But I'm sure these are quicker.

 

[Kev]

Personally I think the very nature of ply as a material and having an exposed tenon on a thin edge, is just asking for pieces of surface ply to break away. Not a choice I'd embrace.

 

[Flatsawn]

Nice drawers. I have never thought about using 3/4" ply for a bottom. I'll have to think about that next time.

I see many use prefinished plywood. I've never been able to locate it where do you guys find it?

Mark

 

[RKA]

A good lumber yard that caters to carpenters will usually stock it.

 

[Dick Mahany]

I see many use prefinished plywood. I've never been able to locate it where do you guys find it?

Mark

I get prefinished maple 4x8' sheets and prefinished baltic birch in 5x5' sheets from plywood and hardwood distributors in my area.  Just call a local cabinet maker in your area and ask them where they get it.  These suppliers are not your typical retail operations, but were glad to open an account for me and take my money.  Many will even have delivery available.