Possible new workshop....

[Rob-GB]

Hi guys, I have just been approached by a builder I have done a fair amount of work for, to help set up and then manage a new joinery workshop.
We both agreed that it needs to be set up correctly from the onset, and not have to waste time and money re-configuring later.
The space is already determined, (as yet I do not have the architects plans to refer to, but have seen the shell already built) as it will be below his new office suite. The floor area is more than I have had to work in in the last 14 years but not as huge as some that I have seen in use.
My first impression is that a maximum of 5 craftsmen could work there comfortably.

Yes, I am excited at the prospect. Yes, I would love to undertake the challenge and Yes! I'm flipping nervous [eek].

I am sure that one of the reasons I have been asked is due to using Festool tools that have allowed me to say "No worrries, leave it with me!" and that his wife had no mess to clear up after I did some work at their home ;D

Soooo back to the nerves thing.....any advice?

Rob.

 

[ajones]

Hi Rob advice? where to start? sounds like it could be great I wish you all the best with your new venture, Im sure you will keep us up to date.
It would make a very interesting thread fitting out the new shop what machinery to buy ect  [thumbs up]

 

[Neill]

Rob,

My congrats and best wishes as well.  [thumbs up]

My only thought would be that you made the comment about not wanting to reconfigure the shop so that you will not have to reconfigure.

Well I think that reconfiguring the workplace should always be taken into consideration.  There are always circumstances that will dictate the necessity to change.  For example, changes in the workload, character of the work, technological advancements and the economic climate.

I am sure that you are aware of the phrase, "The only thing that is constant is change".

Neill

 

[joiner1970]

Rob try here www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums there are some guys there with huge workshops Im sure they can help.

 

[Rob-GB]

Hi Rob advice? where to start? sounds like it could be great I wish you all the best with your new venture, Im sure you will keep us up to date.
It would make a very interesting thread fitting out the new shop what machinery to buy ect  [thumbs up]

Should all work out I will 'kinda' blog it here [big grin]

 

[ajones]

Cool [cool]

 

[Rob-GB]

Rob,

My congrats and best wishes as well.   [thumbs up]

My only thought would be that you made the comment about not wanting to reconfigure the shop so that you will not have to reconfigure.

Well I think that reconfiguring the workplace should always be taken into consideration.  There are always circumstances that will dictate the necessity to change.  For example, changes in the workload, character of the work, technological advancements and the economic climate.

I am sure that you are aware of the phrase, "The only thing that is constant is change".

Neill

What we want is to not have to sell off kit aquired or re- design the layout for a number of years. The work flow from goods in, to goods out, needs to be the least problematic as we can get. Change to upgrade due to new technology/better working(safer) practices or change in workload is one of those things you deal with or not dependant on whether you want to stay in business or not want that particular business. We also have to comply with the current health and safety regulations in the UK.
We are starting at what we hope to be the bottom of the economic slide, with a range of projects in the pipeline.
My mind is in a spin, with all the possibilities, I hope this makes sense.
Regards Rob.

 

[nickao]

When designing a workshop you first need to know exactly what is going to be made the most. I found my projects actually dictated everything from the tools I needed to the actual placement for work flow. So of course my shop changed over time as I understood what I needed. If  I was to rigid and set things up that could never be moved I could never have perfected my shop for me. Place electrics everywhere to allow for changes later, etc.

Are the five workers all going to be making their individual projects or are they going to be set up with specific duties? That will dictate the set up as well.

Have fun!

 

[jmbfestool]

Mine isn't as big as yours but in a few months time I well be knocking down stables and rebuilding it bigger for a work shop for my self and I be spending my own money so i'm thinkin of millions of ideas and worried I buy something which will set be back alot of money but wont make me any money and trying to use the space wisely I kinda know how your feeling but its worse for you because its for someone els so you dont wanna let them down.

The company I worked for 3years has two large buildings as workshops one is very big and even that isn't big enough. A lot of space is used for assembling large units and  it only has 4 people in it and they always have hardboard sheets on the floor for marking out.  All 4 have about 4-5metre square space each just free for making and assembling things  not including their large benches they have each. Its tighter now because the company bought a large windows/door making machine as big as a small terrist house.

The problem I think the workshop has is that their was 4 people and one large table saw when I was working in their I was waiting to rip sheets down  I think they all should of had a small or even a festool table saw next to them. So they could rip down large sheets with the big one and do all the little cutting with the smaller ones but having more large table saw which is what the company is planning on doin in the future is reducing alot of space and cost alot more. It was like waiting in a line to go on a ride sometimes.  Things like the four way thicknesser I never had to wait using that  also they had a small bandsaw and large selffeeding band saw that wasnt in high demand either.

 

[jmbfestool]

When designing a workshop you first need to know exactly what is going to be made the most. I found my projects actually dictated everything from the tools I needed to the actual placement for work flow. So of course my shop changed over time as I understood what I needed. If  I was to rigid and set things up that could never be moved I could never have perfected my shop for me. Place electrics everywhere to allow for changes later, etc.

Are the five workers all going to be making their individual projects or are they going to be set up with specific duties? That will dictate the set up as well.

Have fun!

Also make sure you have plenty of space left for storing materials because soon as you know it you end up clogged up with new stock and with offcuts which are to big and a waist to throw away.  Also keep in mind the workers properly wont go out of the way to move offcuts so have a space around the machinery for either a large square wheelie bin next to each machine or just a space to dump the wood with out creating a hazard around the machine and it can be easily thrown  away at the end of the day  one person can get rid of it easily.

 

[richard.selwyn]

I'll second the storage comment.  Its my biggest problem.  Sheet goods and planks of hardwood are very greedy on space.  Also, a sliding table saw takes up a lot more space than its footprint - maybe an upright panel saw like a Steibig if you need that kind of thing.  Ducting for extraction is also an issue - you don't want to be constantly redoing it.

I started with everything on wheels.  My shop is too small - about 1000 sg ft, with storage elsewhere.  I am regularly moving things about as an when they are needed.
Good luck

Richard

 

[Rob-GB]

More thoughts on the subject.
If it is made from wood, we will make it. From runs of skirting to kitchens and beyond.

Machinery, the big four/five.

Panel saw with 3.2mtr table.
Separate Planer and Thicknesser units
Spindle Moulder with good ring fence set up and power feed
Three Head Tenoner

Smaller footprint machines;

Radial arm saw
Chisel Morticer
Bandsaw, must accept blades from 3mm to 25mm
Drum Sander
Pillar Drill

Wish List;

A four or six head planer/moulder
Bandsaw resaw

All will depend on the budget of course!  [smile] The initial nerves are settled, JMB was right, it is the thought of letting the guy down that was preying on my mind.
If it were my money I was spending I would get the best I could afford and make it earn the money for bigger and better.
Definately going to push for Festool hand tools and vacs. [big grin]
Rob.

 

[jmbfestool]

I'll second the storage comment.  Its my biggest problem.  Sheet goods and planks of hardwood are very greedy on space.  Also, a sliding table saw takes up a lot more space than its footprint - maybe an upright panel saw like a Steibig if you need that kind of thing.  Ducting for extraction is also an issue - you don't want to be constantly redoing it.

I started with everything on wheels.  My shop is too small - about 1000 sg ft, with storage elsewhere.  I am regularly moving things about as an when they are needed.
Good luck

Richard

I second the comment on vertical panel saw good space saver and good  for cross cutting not very good for ripping though but it is easy on the old back. As a sliding table saw is a bit awkward on the back with 22mm MDF sheets trying to get them onto the bench even with a roller.

 

[jmbfestool]

If it were my money I was spending I would get the best I could afford and make it earn the money for bigger and better.
Definately going to push for Festool hand tools and vacs. [big grin]
Rob.

The thing is the small things like hand tools and stuff should really be supplied by the tradesmen really shouldn't they?!?!?

 

[Rob-GB]

If it were my money I was spending I would get the best I could afford and make it earn the money for bigger and better.
Definately going to push for Festool hand tools and vacs. [big grin]
Rob.

The thing is the small things like hand tools and stuff should really be supplied by the tradesmen really shouldn't they?!?!?

I think we are one of the few countries where that's the done thing! [sad] While working in Germany even the non powered hand tools were provided.
They were pretty crap, and the guys got a bit annoyed when I got mine out of the van.!!
I think that if you want 'employees' to be as efficient as possible then supplying quality, reliable powered hand tools are the way to go. Also if the tools are easy to use with dust controland other safety features, then they are more likely to be used.
I would draw the line at providing non-powered handtools as I think any self respecting and enthusiastic woodworker would want their own and have pride in them.
Anyone not of that disposition would not last long in a workshop I had a say in.

If we promote a sense of self worth and pride in our work, use the tooling that best suits the task with safety of the user in mind, then the whole company will benefit. Happy staff are productive staff, happier still are the staff that enjoy their craft, then management is happy and wages are able to be improved.
Everyone then has a more secure future,because the clients end up happier and willing to recommend the company and place future orders. [big grin] [big grin]
Easy for me to say as I love what I do ;D Also addicted to buying tools (as long as they pay their way!)

Rob.

 

[jmbfestool]

If it were my money I was spending I would get the best I could afford and make it earn the money for bigger and better.
Definately going to push for Festool hand tools and vacs. [big grin]
Rob.

The thing is the small things like hand tools and stuff should really be supplied by the tradesmen really shouldn't they?!?!?

I think we are one of the few countries where that's the done thing! [sad] While working in Germany even the non powered hand tools were provided.
They were pretty crap, and the guys got a bit annoyed when I got mine out of the van.!!
I think that if you want 'employees' to be as efficient as possible then supplying quality, reliable powered hand tools are the way to go. Also if the tools are easy to use with dust controland other safety features, then they are more likely to be used.
I would draw the line at providing non-powered handtools as I think any self respecting and enthusiastic woodworker would want their own and have pride in them.
Anyone not of that disposition would not last long in a workshop I had a say in.

If we promote a sense of self worth and pride in our work, use the tooling that best suits the task with safety of the user in mind, then the whole company will benefit. Happy staff are productive staff, happier still are the staff that enjoy their craft, then management is happy and wages are able to be improved.
Everyone then has a more secure future,because the clients end up happier and willing to recommend the company and place future orders. [big grin] [big grin]
Easy for me to say as I love what I do ;D Also addicted to buying tools (as long as they pay their way!)

Rob.

The company I worked for supplied power tools  and its ONE of the reasons why I left.  Not only did they supply tools for people on the books but also contractors who are on more money than book men. Its fair enough to supply book men and I was happy with that because I was on the books and  I think  chopsaws ,jigsaw, SDS drill should be supplied but not hand tools like you said. But he wouldnt supply Hand saws but would replace any sort of blades for circular saws jigsaws routers for any one even contractors. The thing is I was happy using my tools because it was easier because you know your own tools plus your not sharing and sometimes getting crap.

I did always get the new stuff because the foreman likes me and knew I looked after the tools but I had to use my TS55 a lot and Fein multi cutter because the company always did everything for every one so if a electrician needed wood cuttin we did it for them if a plumber needed a floor up or hole cutting we did it no other trades me did any thing but their own specific job because we where always the main contractor so we did everything for every one. The thing is it often required the fein to cut awkward place for pipes and cables or toilet things like that. I did moan about it and was told to charge for using the tools but what I didnt understand was why they didnt just buy these tools instead of bein dewalt stuff all the time and bosch.

What I have just said above makes it sound like why leave the firm doesn't it lol What am I moaning at lol.Well  What what made me leave was the firm was to good to the staff passically.  The more you moaned the lazier you was the older you was and less willing the more you was respected the more you was rewarded. 

Example:  Bloke named Graham  hides from the Foreman and smokes all the time.We was building 7 houses I was working on all of them but I had one main house it was like it was my house I was told I can do all the joinery from floor joist,flooring,windows,doors,skirting,architrave, bathroom and kitchen.

I finished everything and was going to start the kitchen BUT I  was asked if Graham could do it because Graham said he was to old to do skirting and architrave on the other houses bassically he thinks hes do good for it now.

I said fine yeah sure.

Foreman said sorry and could tell I wasnt happy about it.

Then it took Graham a WEEK  a WEEK to do the kitchen I could of done it in 2 days because it was a granite work top so you didnt even need to cut and fit a worktop.  When I said I was leaving to the Forman I mentioned one of the reasons why I was leaving because of people like Graham you gave him the kitchen jobs and all he did was look through the windows keeping a eye out for you see if you was coming. He told me he knew what Graham was like. I said why do you let him do it then he said you cant change people just the way they are. I said you can you can change their lives you get rid of them then they will change because they wont have a job.

He then just defended him sayin he does know his stuff and does do a good job. I then took him to the kitchen he fitted and said well is this a good job and tryed to open a draw but couldnt because it hit the architrive. He just went O ill have to let him know.All Graham did was laugh and said you will av to sort it I told him were to stick it. You know what happend?!?!? I ended up fixing the problem because graham left it left it left it and then went on Holliday. So he spend a week and I had to go back and sort it. He didnt even av a access panel for the stop tap.

So to moto of the company was the less you did the more your respected and I dont work like that I like workin

I go on and on dont i properly dont make any sense either. I like talking crap lol

 

[ajones]

stop slaging me off Rob it was only a bit of arc and you can turn the water off in the road and I had that holiday booked for months.

Graham

 

[ajones]

just kiddin wid yu​

 

[Nigel]

If it were my money I was spending I would get the best I could afford and make it earn the money for bigger and better.
Definately going to push for Festool hand tools and vacs. [big grin]
Rob.

The thing is the small things like hand tools and stuff should really be supplied by the tradesmen really shouldn't they?!?!?

I think we are one of the few countries where that's the done thing! [sad] While working in Germany even the non powered hand tools were provided.
They were pretty crap, and the guys got a bit annoyed when I got mine out of the van.!!
I think that if you want 'employees' to be as efficient as possible then supplying quality, reliable powered hand tools are the way to go. Also if the tools are easy to use with dust controland other safety features, then they are more likely to be used.
I would draw the line at providing non-powered handtools as I think any self respecting and enthusiastic woodworker would want their own and have pride in them.
Anyone not of that disposition would not last long in a workshop I had a say in.

If we promote a sense of self worth and pride in our work, use the tooling that best suits the task with safety of the user in mind, then the whole company will benefit. Happy staff are productive staff, happier still are the staff that enjoy their craft, then management is happy and wages are able to be improved.
Everyone then has a more secure future,because the clients end up happier and willing to recommend the company and place future orders. [big grin] [big grin]
Easy for me to say as I love what I do ;D Also addicted to buying tools (as long as they pay their way!)

Rob.

The company I worked for supplied power tools  and its ONE of the reasons why I left.  Not only did they supply tools for people on the books but also contractors who are on more money than book men. Its fair enough to supply book men and I was happy with that because I was on the books and  I think  chopsaws ,jigsaw, SDS drill should be supplied but not hand tools like you said. But he wouldnt supply Hand saws but would replace any sort of blades for circular saws jigsaws routers for any one even contractors. The thing is I was happy using my tools because it was easier because you know your own tools plus your not sharing and sometimes getting crap.

I did always get the new stuff because the foreman likes me and knew I looked after the tools but I had to use my TS55 a lot and Fein multi cutter because the company always did everything for every one so if a electrician needed wood cuttin we did it for them if a plumber needed a floor up or hole cutting we did it no other trades me did any thing but their own specific job because we where always the main contractor so we did everything for every one. The thing is it often required the fein to cut awkward place for pipes and cables or toilet things like that. I did moan about it and was told to charge for using the tools but what I didnt understand was why they didnt just buy these tools instead of bein dewalt stuff all the time and bosch.

What I have just said above makes it sound like why leave the firm doesn't it lol What am I moaning at lol.Well  What what made me leave was the firm was to good to the staff passically.  The more you moaned the lazier you was the older you was and less willing the more you was respected the more you was rewarded. 

Example:  Bloke named Graham  hides from the Foreman and smokes all the time.We was building 7 houses I was working on all of them but I had one main house it was like it was my house I was told I can do all the joinery from floor joist,flooring,windows,doors,skirting,architrave, bathroom and kitchen.

I finished everything and was going to start the kitchen BUT I  was asked if Graham could do it because Graham said he was to old to do skirting and architrave on the other houses bassically he thinks hes do good for it now.

I said fine yeah sure.

Foreman said sorry and could tell I wasnt happy about it.

Then it took Graham a WEEK  a WEEK to do the kitchen I could of done it in 2 days because it was a granite work top so you didnt even need to cut and fit a worktop.  When I said I was leaving to the Forman I mentioned one of the reasons why I was leaving because of people like Graham you gave him the kitchen jobs and all he did was look through the windows keeping a eye out for you see if you was coming. He told me he knew what Graham was like. I said why do you let him do it then he said you cant change people just the way they are. I said you can you can change their lives you get rid of them then they will change because they wont have a job.

He then just defended him sayin he does know his stuff and does do a good job. I then took him to the kitchen he fitted and said well is this a good job and tryed to open a draw but couldnt because it hit the architrive. He just went O ill have to let him know.All Graham did was laugh and said you will av to sort it I told him were to stick it. You know what happend?!?!? I ended up fixing the problem because graham left it left it left it and then went on Holliday. So he spend a week and I had to go back and sort it. He didnt even av a access panel for the stop tap.

So to moto of the company was the less you did the more your respected and I dont work like that I like workin

I go on and on dont i properly dont make any sense either. I like talking crap lol

    Blimey is that a rant?

 

[Rob-GB]

I know it was sunny yesterday, maybe some peoples need to get a hat!  ;D ;D