Pro or Cons on the Veritas Skew Block Plane vs. normal low angle block plane?

[cliffp]

I am interested in getting a low angle jack plane and am torn between the LN LA jack and the LN LA jack rabbet. I note that Richard (RL) recommends the rabbet version. One thing that concerns me about the rabbet version is that it is a bit shorter at 12 3/4 " compared to the 14" of the standard jack.

I already have a LN no 4 and will get a no 7 of some sort but prefer not having to get anything in between (which I'm afraid I might have to do if I get a short jack). The other concern is that shooting with a rabbet plane is difficult I imagine? Presumably I would have to make up and attach a piece of wood to the side of the lane to keep the blade away from the shooting board? I was thinking that I might be better off getting the standard jack and later on, a shoulder plane (I haven't yet got into mortice/tenon joinery, using rabbets or using planes to create raised panels but it does look satisfying so buying a tool with these added features would be nice if the drawbacks are minimal).

 

[RONWEN]

Thanks for all who answered & commented my questions.

Due to the great advice & options above I did procrastinate for the longest of time with indecision between the Lie-Nielsen Rabbet Block Plane, the Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack Rabbet and the Veritas Skew Block Plane and the Veritas Bevel Up Jack Rabbet.

I hear the valid points of the complexities related to sharpening a skewed blade, but since I already own the Veritas MkII jig with the skew registration add-on I figured how hard can it be, right  [cool]

In the end it came down to size and utility - I have a #4 Stanley already, but that can't get into corners so I was looking for some sort of rabbeting plane and as much as I'd love to have just one good plane to do-it-all just thinking of shaving tennon faces clean with one of the 15" Jacks doesn't sound very ergonomic or controllable. So finally I ended up pulling the trigger and ordering a right-handed version of the Veritas Skew Block plane with the A2 steel blade and hope it'll excel at getting to corners and cutting small pieces cross grain,  work well enough on end grain applications and, keeping my fingers crossed, if it could also be used successfully for small piece smoothing applications as well.

We'll see how it works out when it arrives - got a half a dozen drawer front rabbets waiting to be cleaned up [wink]

Now I just need to figure which plane to acquire for straightening twists out of boards and getting them ready for thicknessing - I can guess a Jack Plane of some sorts might be in my future to cover rest of the bases [tongue]

I suffer with a mild addiction to planes and sharpening systems (much better now thank you  [blink]).  I have several LV's, LN's, Bridge City, Stanleys, etc.  There is no doubt more information & technique lost from the days when tools didn't have tails than is available today although there are many very good books & DVD's on the subject.
There are still thousands (millions?) of great old Stanley planes available to be given a new life at a modest cost.  Most all of the LV's and LN's are based on the old Stanley models.  With some time and effort invested, you'll find a Stanley jack plane that with perform as well as any new one that will cost many times more.

Somewhere I picked up the idea of putting about a 8" radius on jack plane irons.  It works well and it's pretty amazing how fast a fair amount of stock can be removed when flattening a board.

 

[Connollyir]

I'm still a babe in the woods when it comes to hand planes. I also initially wanted to buy planes that wouldn't bring me to tears if my son dropped them on the concrete!

I've got a couple of Stanley low angle block planes (60 1/2) and I'm pleased with the results based on modest expectation. These are part of a family of Stanley and Record planes of various sizes).

This thread is interesting as I'd like to go to the next level, but I don't have the intimate knowledge of target blade angle and grain orientation specifics, etc. I'd love to know if there's some sort of application chart for planes ... with something like a list of task types and a range of planes identified from ideal to less ideal.

Anyone know of something like this?

I was taught to use a jack plane generally a number 5 or a 5 1/2 for your ruff work, your jointer number 7 or 8 to flatten your work, and the smother which is a 4 1/2 or smaller to finish it. however with smaller pieces you wouldn't need a huge plane to flatten it. Another thing you could do a back bevel to get 50 or 55 degrees.

I agree with that, except for the comment on back bevels - it is a method some use with good results but for me it makes sharpening more difficult because you cannot fully lap the back of the blade with a back bevel. The "ruler trick" was popularized by David Charlesworth and I used that method for a year or so before going back to a completely flat back on all my irons... I also have a 55 deg. frog for my #4 so I get my higher cutting angle that way.

I worked for years without any power tools, mostly because I did not have room or the finances to purchase them, and I got by just fine with what I would consider a standard assortment for hand work.

My set includes a #4, #5, #7, adj. LA block, std. block, Clifton rebate/chisel/bullnose combo, and a large router plane. I have 2 irons for my #4 and #7, slightly crowned and honed at about 25-30 deg. each, and 3 irons for my #5 - 2 prepped the same way and the third with a 2" radius ground for use as a scrub plane substitute .

The bench planes were all well used by the time I got them, predating WWII, and required a SIGNIFICANT amount of work to rehab and get into service... probably on the order of 10 hours per tool for a complete strip down, rust removal, sole flattening, truing frog seat, replacement horn and tote (required for the #4), and finally lapping and sharpening the iron. Its a nice way to become very familiar with your tools if you have the motivation and time, but in my experience it cost me as much in labor as it would have if I just bought a LN/Veritas/Clifton etc. from the start.

I learned to hone free-hand and I would reccomend any serious woodworker do the same. I  can now hone all my irons in the same time it would have taken me to set up and hone 2 with my honing guide. It takes some practice but with a little patience and dedication you can get results almost as good as with a guide and at a fraction of the time.

-Ian

 

[mouppe]

I prefer not to use a back bevel, but I do have a back bevel on two of my blades. One was a plane that I bought second-hand and the previous user had honed a back bevel. The other is my #4 and I was having trouble getting a sharp edge so I experimented with a back bevel. Now that I am proficient with sharpening and can get good results without a back bevel, I no longer use them. Eventually, the two blades of mine which have them will be honed past the back bevel area and I will be left with a flat back.

I think it's an excellent idea to experiment with different sharpening techniques and angles until you find the method that suits you. After all, you can always replace the blade if needs be.

Also, I have more than one blade for a couple of my planes sharpened at a different angle so I can use the right blade in the same tool for a particular job, for example instead of having a low angle block plane and a standard angle block plane, I just use the low angle plane with either a 25 degree bevel or the 35 degree bevel blade. Two blades ($35 each) for one one plane ($175).

You wouldn't buy a domino machine for each cutter size, would you?

 

[JayStPeter]

I am interested in getting a low angle jack plane and am torn between the LN LA jack and the LN LA jack rabbet. I note that Richard (RL) recommends the rabbet version. One thing that concerns me about the rabbet version is that it is a bit shorter at 12 3/4 " compared to the 14" of the standard jack.

I already have a LN no 4 and will get a no 7 of some sort but prefer not having to get anything in between (which I'm afraid I might have to do if I get a short jack). The other concern is that shooting with a rabbet plane is difficult I imagine? Presumably I would have to make up and attach a piece of wood to the side of the lane to keep the blade away from the shooting board? I was thinking that I might be better off getting the standard jack and later on, a shoulder plane (I haven't yet got into mortice/tenon joinery, using rabbets or using planes to create raised panels but it does look satisfying so buying a tool with these added features would be nice if the drawbacks are minimal).

Everybody, myself included, tends to overcomplicate which planes to get.  I've bought and sold a bunch of planes only to wind up liking a pretty standard set best.  I was hung up on low angle and being able to exchange different angle blades etc.   I'd say get a standard #5.  If you need the angle swapping capability, you'd probably be better off with it in a smoother.

The bench planes were all well used by the time I got them, predating WWII, and required a SIGNIFICANT amount of work to rehab and get into service... probably on the order of 10 hours per tool for a complete strip down, rust removal, sole flattening, truing frog seat, replacement horn and tote (required for the #4), and finally lapping and sharpening the iron. Its a nice way to become very familiar with your tools if you have the motivation and time, but in my experience it cost me as much in labor as it would have if I just bought a LN/Veritas/Clifton etc. from the start.
-Ian

Agree with that.  Depends on wether you enjoy the rehab process or not.  Rehab is not cost effective if you're "on the clock".  I also have a tendency to upgrade the older planes with new blades and chipbreakers, which makes it even less cost effective.