Question for MFT users

[Tezzer]

Fellers, im in the process of making my own MFT (approx 8' x 4') And i dont realy want rails all 4 sides as it will also be a general lay-out bench with one vice (optional) attached.

I was thinking how the expensive side (long rails) will be used to cut the shortest lengths (x-cutting) and the cheapest side (short rails) can be used for ripping and x-cutting the longest lengths. That seems to be the logical solution for me

So my question is, it nessasary to have all 4 sides? or can you just get away with 2 sides. ;D

 

[mysterium]

Tezzer,

Depends how your going to use it...  I think you answered some of your own questions.  Sounds like for you it's not necessary to have it on all four sides. 

I also considered a vise on one side ( I thought about a "long" vise using acme threaded rods, or a pair of bench vises, or a single Lee Valley modified chain vise with a longer chain.  Thus the whole end would be a large vise like a B&D Workmate)  I ended up not putting a vice on the table. 

I bought individual parts from Festool USA; the 4 MFT corners, a pair of legs w/levelers which I cut to widened to fit the pair of MFT 1080 45" or 1165 mm rails that I also bought as parts.  I picked up a pair of 79" rails on eBay to complete the "square".  Thus I "super sized" the MFT table using Festool parts.  In my case I wanted to mate the large MFT table's short 45" side with my 1080 MFT's long side (79" or 2000 mm plus 28" or 725 mm = approx. 107" or 2725 mm  It's actually larger due to the two thickness of the side rail add to the overall length when butted together.)  When the Super Size MFT & the 1080 MFT are joined forming a work surface of approx. 107" or 2725 mm by 45" or 1165 mm this allows with the 118" or 3000 mm guide rail to route/saw a full length sheet that is 8' long on the table. 

The top of the Super Sized MFT was made from a single sheet of 3/4" baltic birch that was drilled with 20 mm holes using a Festool OF 1010 and indexing the LS 32 system "up" the sheet 96 mm so the rows of holes exactly match the 1080's top.  I did a write up awhile back on the FOG about how I used the LS 32 to drill the MFT top.

From the Super Sized MFT I've seen posted on the FOG & old Yahoo site I'd say their a a number of ways to  build one of these.  And of course all are "functional"  er... ah... Super MultiFuctional!!  ;D

jim

 

[woodshopdemos]

In the MFT, the sides make up the strength of the top. The MDF is just a surface. Have you a way to construct the top without the rails. It certainly can be done and when done, you dont need those rails at all except for adapting to the MFT tool system.

 

[SteveD]

There were lots of ideas from the previous discussions of super MFTs - but here are mine from building one.

One of the key benefits of the MFT is the holes. If most of what you want to do is cut, i.e. a "sacrificial" top,  then don't bother with more holes than you need (a couple for the MFT angle guide). However if you want to use it as a bench and therefore spend the time making lots of holes, then the rails do not provide more than barely useful functions. Over a given length you will need to support the top with more strength than the rails can provide - they sag. It may, therefore, be more useful to have 'edges' or a vertical board with holes on your bench rather than the rails.
The holes only need to be consistent when using the guide with two fixed screws that are 96mm apart (such as the MFT angle guide). Otherwise random holes drilled where needed can work.

A few ideas that have come to mind as I have worked with the MFT and my bench.
- A 4' deep MFT for cross cutting may be too deep to reach/cut over safely unless it is low enough to kneel/climb on.
- Make a sacrificial  sheet to go on top of the 'super' MFT. Use some dowels for locators. One piece of the side rail, cut in half, would provide sufficient to mount the guide and adapters at each end of this piece.
- Attempting to use the long edge for cutting with the flip up guides means you need to have enough height to raise the guide- or someone to hold it up away from the workpiece whilst you move things underneath it! (See below for better solution)
- Make a sacrificial guide but use a regular guide rail and some blocks to hold it in place. I regularly use some hinges I made to flip the guide rail up on the LONG edge either using another guide clamped down (but raised up in relation to the guide used for cutting).
  I have managed to do this successfully with a combination of guides to make an 8' long series of repeat cuts single handed. Using this technique I managed to produce several 8' edge strips 1/4" thick and 1 1/2" wide from an 8' length of 2"x4". I also use a separate cutting frame to support large sheets).
  I have a saw bench that has not been used for a year as I have found ways to utilize the the Festool system to replicate the functions (and much safer too!). The only limit I have is the depth of cut on the TS55. I just plan accordingly!
- The height of the replacement MFT should be considered in relation to the size. Working in the centre of a 4' deep worktop (e.g. routing a hole) might be easier if the top was lower than standard. (I made my bench adjustable in height as well as being easily dismantled as I found the working height to be a problem).
- The thickness of the bench surface is critical when trying to insert the Festool clamps in the standard 20mm holes. Again the top will sag if not supported on a wide bench (the supports can present a problem). Options include larger holes for thicker tops - but then you lose some versatility. However Festool clamps are not the only options. 20mm bolts (a tight fit) or 3/4" bolts with washers and blocks of wood can also be used. I have a collection of 5/8" threaded rods from other applications I have used. (The threads can tear up the holes if you are not careful).
But as other posts have suggested, there are lots of ways to do what you want.

 

[Eli]

Hey Steve-
If you get a chance could you post a pic of your hinged long edge guide? I can sort of picture it, but I need the equivalent of 1k words. Thanks.

 

[SteveD]

There were some pix on the old site - I suppose I had better repost them in a gallery.

SteveD

 

[SteveD]

(Below: left and right are in relation to the cut line and direction of cut)
Sorry for the length of explanation ...

Eli,
Pictures of the hinges are posted (I think they will get moved into a gallery with my name when Matthew checks them). Some of the pix are of hinges 'version 1.0' and others of 2.1. However so you get an appreciation:
The 'right hand' guide is the one for the saw, the left hand guide is clamped. Suppose you want to cut some strips 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide from 1 1/2" thick stock (2 x 4) and 48" long. On the sacrificial top I would cut a couple of short (18" pieces) - the stops - of the material, that I place crosswise at each end of the guides where I am going to clamp. The ends of the stops are used to position the piece to be cut. I would place the Festool guides on top of the stops and  position the guide to make a 1/2" cut from the work. Clamp the left hand guide. When you flip up (over) the right hand guide you can place the work to be cut into place and then flip the right hand guide down to hold the work and cut. Once cut, flip up the right hand guide, remove the piece, slide the work over, and cut the next. I have used this to repeat cut 1/4" laths for edging, however you need to be careful as the thinner the cut piece is the less rigid it is under the guide. 1/4" seems to be the minimum for underneath the guide. Using the reverse (stops to the right) I have cut strips of less than 1/8" for testing.
Like the MFT the kerf in the sacrificial surface never varies due to the nature of the hinge. Instead of being hinged at the end it is hinged along the length. Then ...
When the work needs to go under both guides, use a piece of standard thickness material (I use 1/8" aluminium) to raise the LEFT hand guide so that it clears the piece going under. Then I put a similar piece of material between the right hand rail and the hinge itself. This LOWERS the right hand rail in relation to the left. The result is that the right hand guide rail is flush with the work (and thus holds it) when it is down. Raised up, the work can pass underneath both. I use various stops (on the left or right), clamped to the surface to locate the work in position for cutting. For repeat cuts on sheet goods this method cannot be beaten, except for the MFT itself. HOWEVER ... this method is not limited to the width of the MFT.
The hinge, as shown, has 6mm clearance holes. The right hand support does NOT have to be another guide rail. More than once I have screwed three hinges for my two connected 1400 guides to a 12" strip of ply that is held VERTICAL (so it does not sag). This needs at least 3 hinges to support the length and as I have only 1400 mm guides the centre hinge also doubles for one of the joining pieces. I also use a 10' length of 2x4 as the clamped piece, to which the ply was attached. Thus I am able to cut full 8' sheets of ply into exact sized strips by myself - rapidly. Yes I could have made marks and moved the guides. But the stops were to the right of the cut and the sheet of ply moved from left to right. I did it this way around as I found, on occasion, that sawdust got under the guide and prevented an exact fit or things 'moved'. At least this way I could see the problem if it occurred.
I could go on with other things these hinges can do. Every time I get them out I find a new possible 'use' for them.
My version 1.0 was using wing nuts and a drilled out hinge set. It proved the point but the wing nuts got in the way. for version 2.0 I tried epoxying the hinges to some aluminium bar. Didn't work. For version 2.1 riveted the hinge to the bar and used hex head bolts. In long applications there is a considerable stress on the hinges and I use three hinges over 8'.
If I had the time for version 3.0 they will have raised joint hinges so that the two guides could fold flat together, possibly with a stop/support between.

There are some caveats. The left hand guide must be straight! The whole must be assembled on the flat and straight. The guide connector bars have play in them so be careful that they are actually true before being tightened.

The cost of these hinges is minimal. Some Festool guide connector bars, some aluminium or steel strip and lengths of strip hinge. A few 6mm bolts and rivets. The guide bars only need to have two set screws removed and are not damaged in any way so can be reused as connector bars at another time. (You will, of course, need the other connector bars when joining the FS/2 guide rails). I usually use my FS/32 and the short guide from the MFT on the left and my two 1400s on the right. But when I need more length on the 'left' then I have to cut a piece of ply as noted above.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask. I hope this explains what I have done.

SteveD