Recommended Brands of Stains & Topcoats

[Mike Goetzke]

I work out of my attached garage so for the past 20 years or so I have been using WB products with my HVLP system. I have exclusively used Target Coatings but have had a few issues that make me want to look elsewhere. The last issue was on a medicine cabinet I built. It was built to match a vanity and tall cabinet I made. I used Minwax Natural oil based stain and topcoated the vanity & tall cabinet with Emtech EM9300 - no issues. Nowe I was running low with the 9300 so thought I'd use two build up coats of EM6000 I had and then apply two coats of EM9300. The web site claims they are compatible if you let it dry for 1/2 a day. My stained pieces have been sitting/drying for 2-3 weeks. I tested the EM6000 on the backside of the cabinet and it looked fine. Then I spray one side of the doors & shelves but sprayed the whole cabinet. I go away for 45 minutes and go back to spray the other sides and the pieces seemed pale. The EM6000 seems to have removed the color of the stain! I originally stained before assembly so now that I have to re-sand and stain the corners will never look as good as they could have.

I laugh at it now but several years ago I built a sewing table for my daughter. She wanted pink! So I got some WB stain and checked with the stain supplier and Target coatings to see if they were compatible. Both assured me I was good to go. Well, after applying the topcoat all my beautiful components turned bright orange! I was able to recover by buying dye that I could put in the finish itself.

So I'm on the hunt for a new brand of finishes.

 

[P_K]

I'd avoid General Finishes at all costs. Their dyes are ok but their WB varnishes are just straight-up garbage and there's no way to contact them for support except through their Facebook group. Totally infuriating that they've removed the phone number and email from their website and product labels.

My go to's are generally either EM8000 or shellac.

 

[Redromad]

I have never used General Finishes top coats but I have used their stains and recently had issues with the Esspresso color. I top coat stain with Kem-Aqua water based but am interested in other options

 

[Packard]

The only G-F product I use is their “milk paint” which is really a modern day acrylic meant to mimic the appearance of milk paint. It is an indoor/outdoor finish. Easy to apply and brushes on beautifully and offers a superior look of a sprayed on finish with no brush marks. But a very matte finish.

I have tried a number of different manufacturers’ clear coats, and none seemed substantially superior to Minwax’s offerings. In magazine reviews the Minwax clear coats are consistently number 1 or number 2 in the rankings.

From a serious woodworker’s point of view, the most serious drawback is the pooh-poohing from other woodworkers and the fact that it is easily purchased almost everywhere. Serious woodworkers like to brag that they used a product that simple hobbyists know nothing about.

 

[onocoffee]

Maybe look into Mohawk Rockhard. It's a clear coat that you can spray on that has been very clear and stable - but I've not used it on stained surfaces.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Target coatings had email conversation with me but I'm still not in a comfort zone. When I finished the matching vanity with 9300 it wasn't bad but I let the cabinet sit in the garage for a while while I finished prep in the bathroom. It wasn't bad but even though I gave the topcoat way more time than the minimum to dry it seemed like parts that were touching stuck to each other. I gave Target my stain info and was told I probably didn't let the stain dry long enough. OK, so on the medicine cabinet that had the blushing they said maybe the stain was let to dry too long.. What! I sent them pics of a sample piece I did after having the issue to see if it could be duplicated and it was. Now on the test I only let the stain dry for 4 hours. My 9300 is fine but the 6000 not so good. This can become an expensive game for the hobbyist if you spend $100+ on a topcoat and then find it incompatible with your stain. Maybe there is a common "sealer" to use with all finishes? They also suggested to always spray on a mist coat for the first coat and then follow up with 3mil thick coats. I had been laying down 3mil on the first coat.

 

[Packard]

I have had similar results on red oak when I did not allow the stain to dry for 12 hours before sealing.

I would note that I typically seal with a wipe on coat of SealCoat dewaxed shellac. I use it right from the can and the wipe-on coat is quite light and dries in about 20 minutes. The wipe-on coat coat is typically flawless with no drips, runs or visible application artifacts. I can apply a finish coat an hour later.

In any case, the stain issue looks like stain that remained pooled in the deep grain and had not hat time to dry. You can accelerate the drying process by wiping off the excess thoroughly and with pressure on the clean cloth. But still, I would allow overnight drying.

I believe the best remedy is to sand through the finish and wipe with mineral spirits and re-apply the stain.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I have had similar results on red oak when I did not allow the stain to dry for 12 hours before sealing.

I would note that I typically seal with a wipe on coat of SealCoat dewaxed shellac. I use it right from the can and the wipe-on coat is quite light and dries in about 20 minutes. The wipe-on coat coat is typically flawless with no drips, runs or visible application artifacts. I can apply a finish coat an hour later.

In any case, the stain issue looks like stain that remained pooled in the deep grain and had not hat time to dry. You can accelerate the drying process by wiping off the excess thoroughly and with pressure on the clean cloth. But still, I would allow overnight drying.

I believe the best remedy is to sand through the finish and wipe with mineral spirits and re-apply the stain.

Thanks for the comments/info - will look into SealCoat, but, I had this same blushing happen on stain that dried for 3 weeks and in the pic 4 hours. So some kind of chemical reaction.

 

[Packard]

If it is a chemical reaction, the dewaxed shellac should prevent that.

I should note that the advantages of SealCoat, as I see it, are:

1. It is dewaxed.
2. It seems to be available everywhere.
3. It is cut to be used straight from the can.
4. It is clear—no apparent orange or yellow
5. It dries quickly (all shellac products do).
6. It seems to adhere well to all surfaces and all finishes adhere well to it. It can be considered a universal primer, but unpigmented.
7. It applies easily using my preferred application method (wipe-on).
8. And, if you use paper shop towels as I do for wipe-on, no cleanup.

NOTE:

If you use paper towels, spread out and allow to dry before disposing to avoid spontaneous combustion, or saturate with water before disposing of them.

 

[leakyroof]

I agree with Packard, to prevent top coat of Water based, to oil based stain issues, I use Dewaxed Shellac between the two fairly often. I also used Shellac over Gel Stains to quickly seal and keep the gel stain from getting into an oil based Varnish or other Solvent Based Top Coat. Gel Stains are something I've started using more than a Pigment Stain, esp on tricky woods that Pigment Stains would normally be at risk to come out blotchy. But , they're easily lifted up off the surface of the wood more than a Pigment stain in my experience.

 

[leakyroof]

If it is a chemical reaction, the dewaxed shellac should prevent that.

I should note that the advantages of SealCoat, as I see it, are:

1. It is dewaxed.
2. It seems to be available everywhere.
3. It is cut to be used straight from the can.
4. It is clear—no apparent orange or yellow
5. It dries quickly (all shellac products do).
6. It seems to adhere well to all surfaces and all finishes adhere well to it. It can be considered a universal primer, but unpigmented.
7. It applies easily using my preferred application method (wipe-on).
8. And, if you use paper shop towels as I do for wipe-on, no cleanup.

NOTE:

If you use paper towels, spread out and allow to dry before disposing to avoid spontaneous combustion, or saturate with water before disposing of them.

I would add that Shellac, at least in our neck of the wood, in Dewaxed form, is actually HARD to come by. Last can I bought this year had to come from Amazon. I've read different opinions on why it's hard to find, but don't know for certain the real reason. Used to be you could stop by any Home Depot and buy it by qt or gallon unless a Flooring Crew had come in and wiped the shelves of inventory....

 

[Mike Goetzke]

If it is a chemical reaction, the dewaxed shellac should prevent that.

I should note that the advantages of SealCoat, as I see it, are:

1. It is dewaxed.
2. It seems to be available everywhere.
3. It is cut to be used straight from the can.
4. It is clear—no apparent orange or yellow
5. It dries quickly (all shellac products do).
6. It seems to adhere well to all surfaces and all finishes adhere well to it. It can be considered a universal primer, but unpigmented.
7. It applies easily using my preferred application method (wipe-on).
8. And, if you use paper shop towels as I do for wipe-on, no cleanup.

NOTE:

If you use paper towels, spread out and allow to dry before disposing to avoid spontaneous combustion, or saturate with water before disposing of them.

Sorry to bother but could you please provide a link to the SealCoat you use? All the SealCoat I see says sanding sealer.

 

[Packard]

I’m going to withdraw my recommendation.

Rockler lists it at $34.00 per quart. I think I paid about $7.00 for a quart last time. Too much money.

Addendum: It is $22.00 per quart from Amazon. But still too pricy.

SealCoat is simply a clear dewaxed shellac in an approximately 2 pound cut. Nothing very special about it. Just convenient. You can make own. But now I have to see what a clear dewaxed shellac costs.

 

[peter halle]

Sorry to bother but could you please provide a link to the SealCoat you use? All the SealCoat I see says sanding sealer.

It is the same thing based on the label for it. I ended up buying dewed shellac flakes and denatured alcohol and mixing up a mason jars worth.

Peter

 

[leakyroof]

I’m going to withdraw my recommendation.

Rockler lists it at $34.00 per quart. I think I paid about $7.00 for a quart last time. Too much money.

Addendum: It is $22.00 per quart from Amazon. But still too pricy.

SealCoat is simply a clear dewaxed shellac in an approximately 2 pound cut. Nothing very special about it. Just convenient. You can make own. But now I have to see what a clear dewaxed shellac costs.

My Rockler won't even carry Shellac in the store anymore. I was surprised to hear one of the Employees state this to a Customer while I was in the store earlier this year buying a jig and other items. If you see it in your store, congratulations... I suppose I can take Peter Halle's route, with making my own once I use up the qt that I've got on hand. And yes, the price used to be low, and has gone up and up.
I know I have some Shellac Flakes that I bought some years ago, I should see if either bag is Dewaxed or not...

 

[leakyroof]

Sorry to bother but could you please provide a link to the SealCoat you use? All the SealCoat I see says sanding sealer.

The cans often say Sanding Sealer on them , with the dewaxed status somewhere else on the label. I HAVE used regular Shellac in lieu of Dewaxed version , but it's risky due to the wax in regular Shellac possibly creating a finish adherence issue all on its own when used as a Sealer Coat. So, FYI on that.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I have had similar results on red oak when I did not allow the stain to dry for 12 hours before sealing.

I would note that I typically seal with a wipe on coat of SealCoat dewaxed shellac. I use it right from the can and the wipe-on coat is quite light and dries in about 20 minutes. The wipe-on coat coat is typically flawless with no drips, runs or visible application artifacts. I can apply a finish coat an hour later.

In any case, the stain issue looks like stain that remained pooled in the deep grain and had not hat time to dry. You can accelerate the drying process by wiping off the excess thoroughly and with pressure on the clean cloth. But still, I would allow overnight drying.

I believe the best remedy is to sand through the finish and wipe with mineral spirits and re-apply the stain.

I tried a couple of experiments. Jeff at Target Coatings suggested to dilute the Sealcoat with 25% DNA. I did this and no luck, still got stain bleaching. Then I saw you used it full strength so I tried that and worked perfectly - no change in the stain color at all. - Thanks for the tip (I paid about $19 for a quart)

 

[Packard]

I tried a couple of experiments. Jeff at Target Coatings suggested to dilute the Sealcoat with 25% DNA. I did this and no luck, still got stain bleaching. Then I saw you used it full strength so I tried that and worked perfectly - no change in the stain color at all. - Thanks for the tip (I paid about $19 for a quart)

I’ve always used SealCoat right from the can. As a wipe-on finish, a little goes a long way. You can topcoat SealCoat with almost any finish you want, water-based or oil based. But for latex or acrylic wall paint, B-I-N is pigmented shellac and cheaper, so for those finishes, a better choice (with good ventilation).

Either SealCoat or B-I-N will seal odors, helpful if there are unpleasant odors in your house.