RO-90DX vs DTS 400 REQ

[ADKMedic]

Hello FOG-land...

For getting into corners and such, is there any true advantage to a DTS 400 REQ over using the delta pad on the RO-90 DX?  I'm debating these two sanders.  I already have a RO150 and the Pro5.

Thank you in advance,

Andy

 

[travisj]

Not really a fair comparison.  The RO90 is more of a small size jack-of-all trades sander.  Yes it can do corner work, but it excels in other areas.  I love it for narrow work (face frames, rail and stiles, etc...). 

The DTS400 was designed for corner work.  It is much easier to control and has better dust collection than the RO90.  Probably my favorite sander.

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[ADKMedic]

[member=53578]travisj[/member] Thank you!  What you say makes sense...  Now I'm not sure my wallet is going to like you very much.  LOL.

Andy

 

[ScotF]

Both are great sanders. I have and use both extensively. The DTS is great for sanding on narrow edges with its curved pad to allow sanding right to the edge. The RO 90 allows getting into some hard to reach places and it has an extended pad that is great for shutters and slats. It is nice for contoured sanding with the small heads and round interface pads.

 

[travisj]

[member=53578]travisj[/member] Thank you!  What you say makes sense...  Now I'm not sure my wallet is going to like you very much.  LOL.

Andy

Your hips and back will thank me for not sitting uneven on a thick wallet

It happens to all of us it seems.  It’s a slippery slope that leads to a cliff.  I started with an ETS 150/3.  Now I’m 5 sanders deep...(ETS 150/3, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, Pro 5).

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[ScoFF]

So if you were just comparing the delta pad on the RO-90DX to the DTS 400 for corner applications the DTS is better for control?Why is that, is the stroke length or pattern different that makes the RO-90 take off more?  Not as smooth?
The dust collection as well is worse on the RO-90?  I would have thought it would be equal, isn't the interface to the pad the same?

I'm asking because I have the RO-90 and always thought getting the DTS would be totally redundant.

 

[ScotF]

So if you were just comparing the delta pad on the RO-90DX to the DTS 400 for corner applications the DTS is better for control?Why is that, is the stroke length or pattern different that makes the RO-90 take off more?  Not as smooth?
The dust collection as well is worse on the RO-90?  I would have thought it would be equal, isn't the interface to the pad the same?

I'm asking because I have the RO-90 and always thought getting the DTS would be totally redundant.

The DTS pad is curved and allows you to go right to an adjacent edge without it skittering about. It has a bigger pad, so more stable and faster on edges and flats. DC is better. It is a gem of a sander.

 

[gunnyr]

I have an RO90 and keep finding that it is too long to get in places.  I'm thinking that the DTSC 400 Cordless is the way to go.  It has a smaller stroke than the RO90 and the battery power would make it easy to use for those small on site sanding tasks.

 

[leakyroof]

So if you were just comparing the delta pad on the RO-90DX to the DTS 400 for corner applications the DTS is better for control?Why is that, is the stroke length or pattern different that makes the RO-90 take off more?  Not as smooth?
The dust collection as well is worse on the RO-90?  I would have thought it would be equal, isn't the interface to the pad the same?

I'm asking because I have the RO-90 and always thought getting the DTS would be totally redundant.

. As noted, you’re thinking of the now-gone DX 93 Sander, which shares Pad shape and size with the RO 90 Sander. I have 2 DX93 Sanders, they aren’t like a RO 90 and that’s fine. They work into tighter spaces than a RO 90 unless you’ve got the extended style pad mounted.

 

[Jmacpherson]

I was using my RO-90 with the delta pad on some really narrow edges of some serving boards I'm busy with.
Was not fun and it showed me that the RO-90 isn't meant for it. It handled the task but was awkward and was too large a tool in my opinion.
It now has me contemplating a DTS or RTS for xmas purely because they are truly one handed sanders.

 

[Sanderxpander]

The Rotex 90 was the first "real" sander I bought. I had a lot of framework to strip and I also figured I could use the delta pad for corner work so it'd cover almost all bases. Well, in theory, it does. But it takes someone with way more patience than I have to try to wrestle that thing around for any kind of delicate work. It's the least ergonomic sander I own in that sense - the balance is way weird (yes I know it's two handed and it helps if you hold it one hand on the head and one hand near the hose), the pad is quite small so it's tricky to keep it stable and flat (especially because the weight balance is so odd) and it's just generally too large to use inside cabinets or stuff like that.

I will say it's great at stripping, virtually dust free in ROS mode on a flat surface, and it can leave a pretty smooth surface with its small orbit. It also has the benefit of being able to flip the triangular shaped abrasive if you wear out the tip prematurely, something not possible with a DTS.

Because of my disappointment, I have been looking at other options for getting into corners and doing edge-work (actually the RO90 edge guard lets you do most edge work in ROS mode too). Mainly thinking of cabinets, doorframes, small furniture etc. I got to try a Rupes LS71t (direct competitor for less money) and a Festool DTS400 REQ recently at a workshop. I'd read good stuff about the Rupes too and it was close but my friend and I both preferred the lower vibration levels of the DTS400. I felt it was still quite big though, not in pad size but the machine itself was pretty tall. I still couldn't get to every edge of the project I was working on (a small bench).

So eventually I ended up buying a Mirka Deos 353. It's more an RTS 400 than a DTS 400 but it's so much thinner, lighter and more powerful than either that I forgive the lack of a delta head. Apart from stairs, virtually all my corners are 90 degrees anyway, and it's more important the machine is maneuverable.

All a lot of words to say the Rotex isn't very maneuverable for situations when you'd normally use a delta, and consider if you actually really need a delta head.

 

[aloysius]

The Rotex 90 was the first "real" sander I bought. I had a lot of framework to strip and I also figured I could use the delta pad for corner work so it'd cover almost all bases. Well, in theory, it does. But it takes someone with way more patience than I have to try to wrestle that thing around for any kind of delicate work. It's the least ergonomic sander I own in that sense - the balance is way weird (yes I know it's two handed and it helps if you hold it one hand on the head and one hand near the hose), the pad is quite small so it's tricky to keep it stable and flat (especially because the weight balance is so odd) and it's just generally too large to use inside cabinets or stuff like that.

I will say it's great at stripping, virtually dust free in ROS mode on a flat surface, and it can leave a pretty smooth surface with its small orbit. It also has the benefit of being able to flip the triangular shaped abrasive if you wear out the tip prematurely, something not possible with a DTS.

Because of my disappointment, I have been looking at other options for getting into corners and doing edge-work (actually the RO90 edge guard lets you do most edge work in ROS mode too). Mainly thinking of cabinets, doorframes, small furniture etc. I got to try a Rupes LS71t (direct competitor for less money) and a Festool DTS400 REQ recently at a workshop. I'd read good stuff about the Rupes too and it was close but my friend and I both preferred the lower vibration levels of the DTS400. I felt it was still quite big though, not in pad size but the machine itself was pretty tall. I still couldn't get to every edge of the project I was working on (a small bench).

So eventually I ended up buying a Mirka Deos 353. It's more an RTS 400 than a DTS 400 but it's so much thinner, lighter and more powerful than either that I forgive the lack of a delta head. Apart from stairs, virtually all my corners are 90 degrees anyway, and it's more important the machine is maneuverable.

All a lot of words to say the Rotex isn't very maneuverable for situations when you'd normally use a delta, and consider if you actually really need a delta head.

I have to agree with much of what you've found using the RO90.  You're obviously more patient, forgiving or whatever, than me.  I couldn't get rid of mine soon enough.  Evil little pig of a tool it is/was.  Just too unruly & tiring to use for such poor results obtained.

Strangely, I'd originally purchased one to replace some of my oldest tools:  Metabo's SXE400 80mm ROS & Festo's DX93E.  What a joke!  As you've found, the RO90 doesn't really perform ANY particular task well enough to replace these old gems.

Access is always going to be a problem for intricate work:  but there are some useful alternatives out there.  Forget those oscillating tools for sanding.  Near perfect for such intricate tasks as gouging out grout, plunge cutting glass & ceramics, or even wood with diamond, TCT & HSS blades respectively, their circular reciprocity works agin them for sanding.

Where the delta head on a RO90 (3mm) is too aggro & rough, on a DX93 (2.5mm) it's smooth & controllable.  As is the Swiss-made Scintilla Bosch (2.8mm??).  The Bosches, in GDA 280 & PDA 240 guise, have an "SDS" style bayonet pad fitting that can be turned in 120 degree intervals, as with the Deltex.  In addition to the "normal" extended delta head, there's also extended dbl-sided sanding fingers - both flat & oval rounded section too.  I've also picked up a couple of extra adjustable-angle 3-D pads which I've glued to a worn-out SDS bayonet pad for even more versatility.  Still ridiculously slow, but sometimes it's the only head that fits the task!

Any small delta is going to be slow.  It's a detail sander, so even if it IS useful for "slats" or venetians or whatever, it's still going to be achingly slow & tedious to use.  The alternatives?  My old Festo RS3 sander had (still has??) a much bigger 1/3 sheet base & an accessory dbl-sided delta extended platen nose.  Never used it, so it went.  The plethora of "clothes iron" based delta sanders are bigger, smoother, but with much smaller orbits, making them realistically only finishing sanders rather than paint strippers, etc.  There's literally dozens of different makes & models out there.

Mirka's brushless EC motored tools are absolute winners.  I have a couple:  DEROS 5mm & DEOS.  So successful in fact that at last count 6 other manufacturers are using their products, fully or in part, as their own.  There's a couple of interesting variants out there.  The Dutch Delmeq group have an interesting variant of the DEOS with a 3mm orbit & a large standard Delta platen.  Standard paper & mesh abrasive dimensions, speed, power, smoothness AND access.  With nothing else quite like it from any other manufacturer anywhere!

There's 70mm EC ROS from Mirka, Indasa, Carsystem, Rupes & Sumake that appear to be either clones or stylistic copies too.  With quality software alternatives in both paper & mesh from the likes of just about all the quality Euro manufacturers now at much better prices these days, we're literally spoilt for choice!  Yet another reason to question one's sycophantic brand loyalty.

If you like Mirka's ultra-compact EC motor, paddle & dial-a-speed, single-handed ergos, extreme light weight, speed & power, then just about any of the clones could work for you. You could even conceivably fit a Delmeq delta platen lower & upper (4 mounting screws for each) to Mirka's smaller 81 x 133 DEOS model too if you want to save a buck.  This is something that I'm going to try to do in the new year.

One distinct advantage/disadvantage of 5 of the 6 Mirka clones is that they've done away with the (for me) silly plug-it type power cords in favour of fixed ones, which I much prefer.  I personally use a power board, multiple cables & switch a single vac hose for multi-sander use.  Although realistically a single DEROS & DEOS/Delta hybrid pairing would accommodate some 99% of my sanding requirements.

The downside?  No edge-guarding; at all.  You have to learn, as I did some 40 odd years ago with my old B&D, to be careful of arrises and concave corners.  In this regard, and (in my opinion) this alone, Festo/ol's latest sanders are superior.

 

[Sanderxpander]

Omg I didn't know about Delmeq at all. And I'm Dutch, even! That delta plate definitely looks worth trying out on my Deos! Thanks for the tip! That would basically fit all my sanding needs as well. I might even sell the Rotex.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think the RO90 is a great sander best used for stripping paint from smaller surfaces like window sills. For anything else, not so good. Not something that's useful on larger surfaces.

The DTS is much nicer sander though, can be used for almost anything unless the surfaces get really big and then it's better to go to a 150 mm RO sander. The DTS is my favouriter sander I use most.

I've had the RO90 when it just came out, but I got bored with it and sold it off again. The problem is the abrasives are 2,5 times as expensive as any other type of Festool paper, and due to the uncommon format it is impossible to find 3rd party papers for it. That's what really killed this sander's use for me, if Festool made paper for this sander cheaper and better available in smaller quantities, I surely would have kept mine.
 

 

[Jmacpherson]

The DTS is much nicer sander though, can be used for almost anything unless the surfaces get really big and then it's better to go to a 150 mm RO sander. The DTS is my favouriter sander I use most.

[member=5277]Alex[/member], between the DTS and RTS I'm guessing you would opt for the DTS?
From where I'm sitting they are pretty much doing the same thing, they just handle different "shaped" corners/follow edges differently?

 

[Sanderxpander]

I was in the same boat, doubting between delta and straight. In the end I decided I really don't have that many corners smaller than 90 degrees and a straight model is somewhat quicker/easier along edges. I can still break out the Rotex 90 delta pad in a pinch though. Probably the most common real work scenario where a delta is easier than a straight model is stairs.

 

[aloysius]

I think the RO90 is a great sander best used for stripping paint from smaller surfaces like window sills. For anything else, not so good. Not something that's useful on larger surfaces.

The DTS is much nicer sander though, can be used for almost anything unless the surfaces get really big and then it's better to go to a 150 mm RO sander. The DTS is my favouriter sander I use most.

I've had the RO90 when it just came out, but I got bored with it and sold it off again. The problem is the abrasives are 2,5 times as expensive as any other type of Festool paper, and due to the uncommon format it is impossible to find 3rd party papers for it. That's what really killed this sander's use for me, if Festool made paper for this sander cheaper and better available in smaller quantities, I surely would have kept mine.

Mirka definitely, & Sia maybe (their website is terrible), both do 90mm dia. mesh abrasives for the RO90. Both also do mesh abrasives in the small delta pattern suitable for all detail sanders, plus a "universal" small delta pad protector interface.  Klingspor has a range of paper-backed abrasives in the specific Festo hole-in-each-corner small delta pattern.

Mirka tends to be expensive, sometimes higher priced than Festool's abrasives, whereas Sia & Klingspor are much cheaper, & offer pretty good value.  Now the RO90 product has "matured" there's probably going to be even more abrasive makers stamping out corner-hole delta pads & 90mm rounds provided there's a demand for them.

 

[aloysius]

Omg I didn't know about Delmeq at all. And I'm Dutch, even! That delta plate definitely looks worth trying out on my Deos! Thanks for the tip! That would basically fit all my sanding needs as well. I might even sell the Rotex.

How do you find the DEOS?  I originally bought mine just to use up the old stocks of Festool Brilliant papers I had left over after the disappointing performance of my 2 LS130 Duplex sanders for stripping mouldings.  But I'm personally delighted with the little Mirka.  Even more useless for mouldings (naturally), but on flats, even narrow ones like window frames & the like, it's just fantastic.  Fast, powerful & smooth.

Festool obviously went to a lot of trouble designing the Duplex.  Twin contra-rotating counterweights to cancel the for'ard & aft momentum & inertia.  Yet it's the worst vibrating sander I've ever used.  A nice long stroke, but terribly prone to rapid paper clogging.  The last straw for me was how my collection of expensive profiled platens would deteriorate in storage between jobs.  Not an orbital, but not a very good profile sander either.  They may be useful for some particular, narrow range of tasks, but they were an abject failure for my intended uses.

The combination of small dimensions, light weight, a tiny but powerful motor & an aggressive stroke make the DEOS a game-changer in compact orbital sanders. Festool's new battery sanders use compact EC motors too, but they're still much bigger & heavier, less easily handled yet less aggressive too than either DEOS model.

Looks like you might very well beat me to the punch building a hybrid DEOS/Delmeq delta sander.  Please let me know how you get on with it.

 

[Sanderxpander]

I absolutely love both the Deros and the Deos. They feel so light and smooth but they have so much power. And are still virtually dust free.

I emailed the Delmeq folks, the sales guy says he "doesn't recommend" mounting their delta pad to a Mirka. I have no idea why. Warranty issues perhaps? He recommended I get one from Mirka but of course they don't offer one. I may try to order one without all the questions

 

[AlexThePalex]

Mirka definitely, & Sia maybe (their website is terrible), both do 90mm dia. mesh abrasives for the RO90.

Still in the same price league as Festool paper, and since they're only avaialble in 50 or 100 boxes they're still way too expensive and too difficult to get. I ride my bike for an average of 40 km per day, so I know and can reach every hardware store in a 50 km radius around me, and I have never seen 90 mm papers in any of them for a reasonable price.