RO150FEQ and 3 Oils

[ROb McGilp]

Hi
On Monday, I used the RO150FEQ to heat seal 3 different oils into one piece of Red Gum. There is no wax, poly or other finish involved, just straight oil and sanding. If you follow the darker grain through the three oils, it becomes clear that you lose a lot of the grain pattern in the Danish oil, while keeping it in both the China Wood and Scandinavian oils. The SO also gives a brighter appearance than both the other oils and is definitely darker. I'm wondering if the use of a 150/3 would help lift the finish on the DO or not. Any ideas?
Pic 3 is to show how much presence the heat sealing brings to a piece. Hopefully its clear.

Regards,

Ulbrecht

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting technique and results!  Please tell us more!  Do you flood the piece with oil and then wipe or keep it damp?

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi Jesse,
Not sure if "interesting" means good or not ;D.

I follow the Manufacturer's directions primarily, with the following exceptions. I do saturate the timber, I believe its easier to wipe the excess off at the end rather than realise I needed more. Secondly, I do not wipe the piece between each grit, preferring to keep the slurry that forms throughout the process. Dampening the pad with more oil provides any further lubrication required. The beauty of this method is that the oil is thoroughly sealed into the timber, the finish is hard and you can put whatever final overcoat you want on it.
I think that the Festool sanders are so good at what they do, that we probably need to rethink how to get the best results from the sanding process. I have a Coffee table here which was done this way with a hard burnishing oil and coated with UBeaut Trad. Wax. I can put coffee cups and glasses onto it with no marking! The other thing that is not noticeable in photos is the feeling of depth this method imparts to the timber. Grain and figure that you didn't know were there become apparent.
But I'd like to see what a 150/3 would do. My gut tells me that the finish would be even better!

Hope that's what you wanted.

Regards,

Albert

 

[Len]

Hey Albert

I'm a little dense here.  I have never tried the process you are describing.  So give me the scoop beginning to end.  You flood the surface with oil, sand with what grit, how long?  How many times, how many different grits, do you wait between coats.  When are you done?  And on and on. 

Thanks,

Len

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi Len,
I was waiting for confirmation from the Patagonian Wood Finishers' Diary of publication, but I'll give the whole regimen here now. ;D

I start by sanding the workpiece at 80grit, then 100,120,150,240 and 400g using ROS with the 400 and OS with the others. At this point, I wipe the surface with Turps, let it dry and then flood with oil (my standard is Wattyl Scandinavian Oil as it is a liquid, which does not tend to set while sitting on the timber.)
After flooding, I allow about 10 minutes, (depending on the timber) for the oil to soak in. Then I apply a second coat with a soft cloth, so the surface of the workpiece is wet and begin sanding with the 400g I have just used with the sander on ROS. A slurry should begin to build up and the timber will appear rather "muddy".It's then time to change to 600g. Applying oil to the sanding pad so that it is wet will give all the lubrication you need. Do not wipe off the slurry or add oil to the timber surface.
Repeat this process through 800,1200 and 1500g.
I now pull out the Platin 2 pads and use  2000g and 4000g without the addition of oil, and then wipe the piece down with a soft cloth and its done.
It sounds excessive, but try it against your standard method and let me know what you think.
I do not believe it necessary to use anything like Tripoli powder or pumice after this method. Poly, wax or probably even Shellac or other water based finishes should be fine over the top.
Each sanding is contiguous (no waiting) and requires only 5 or 6 strokes across the piece, so its actually quite fast.
If you use China Wood Oil, or Tung oil you should have no problems. I know China Wood oil will give a brilliant finish, but will not have the "high gloss" effect that the Scandinavian oil will. It's great for a satin lustre.
Lastly, I know this sounds excessive, but if anyone wants, I can provide you by email, a hi res photo of two boxes made from the same board, one using the full protocol, the other a less stringent method.

Regards,

All Brit

 

[Bob Marino]

Hi Len,
I was waiting for confirmation from the Patagonian Wood Finishers' Diary of publication, but I'll give the whole regimen here now. ;D

I start by sanding the workpiece at 80grit, then 100,120,150,240 and 400g using ROS with the 400 and OS with the others. At this point, I wipe the surface with Turps, let it dry and then flood with oil (my standard is Wattyl Scandinavian Oil as it is a liquid, which does not tend to set while sitting on the timber.)
After flooding, I allow about 10 minutes, (depending on the timber) for the oil to soak in. Then I apply a second coat with a soft cloth, so the surface of the workpiece is wet and begin sanding with the 400g I have just used with the sander on ROS. A slurry should begin to build up and the timber will appear rather "muddy".It's then time to change to 600g. Applying oil to the sanding pad so that it is wet will give all the lubrication you need. Do not wipe off the slurry or add oil to the timber surface.
Repeat this process through 800,1200 and 1500g.
I now pull out the Platin 2 pads and use  2000g and 4000g without the addition of oil, and then wipe the piece down with a soft cloth and its done.
It sounds excessive, but try it against your standard method and let me know what you think.
I do not believe it necessary to use anything like Tripoli powder or pumice after this method. Poly, wax or probably even Shellac or other water based finishes should be fine over the top.
Each sanding is contiguous (no waiting) and requires only 5 or 6 strokes across the piece, so its actually quite fast.
If you use China Wood Oil, or Tung oil you should have no problems. I know China Wood oil will give a brilliant finish, but will not have the "high gloss" effect that the Scandinavian oil will. It's great for a satin lustre.
Lastly, I know this sounds excessive, but if anyone wants, I can provide you by email, a hi res photo of two boxes made from the same board, one using the full protocol, the other a less stringent method.

Regards,

All Brit

Al,

Thanks for the clarification. I'd be interested in seeing those photos.

Bob

 

[Len]

Albert,

Thank you.  I going to give this method a shot tomorrw night.  If I am half way successful I'll post a pic.

Len

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Thanks Albert.  I'll definitely give it a try!!

 

[Bob Childress]

Albert, me old China. Do you leave the DC connected through every step? Or is it disconnected at some point?  ???

 

[ROb McGilp]

G'day HB,

Yes I have a Karcher Wet/Dry vacuum connected at all times. One of the joys of using Festool sanders is that you can use them even on narrower boards and still get great dust extraction using either OS, or ROS, though the latter is better.
When sanding the timber wet, on ROS, the oil traps the dust before it is drawn away by the extraction system, hence the development of a good slurry.

Regards

Albert

 

[Llap Goch]

"hence the development of a good slurry"

Ulbrecht

Is this the "Slurry with a fringe on top?" perchance?

Roger Hammerstein

 

[ROb McGilp]

Ahh, Roger,
That would be correct! Incidentally, there is a line in that song "When I take you out in the slurry". Perhaps you could confirm that this is in fact a reference to Mud Wrestling?
Incidentally, is the suffix "stein" German for "stain", or just plain oid?

Regards,

Swachet (Klingon)

 

[Llap Goch]

"Perhaps you could confirm that this is in fact a reference to Mud Wrestling?"

Yes it is. The noble art of Mud Wrestling first started in Scotland when a Gentleman walking along the banks of the River Clyde threw a penny coin at some urchins playing in the mud. The ensuing scramble to recover the coin was the start of a Sport which, in my view, has been totally ruined by allowing ladies, with very little clothing, to partake instead of the original urchins. ;D

Roger Estwingstone

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi again Bob,

There's a school of thought that says you should remove the cowl under the RO150 to stop vacuum while polishing, which is what most people would day the Platin 2 pads are doing. I leave the vacuum attached for two reasons.
1. I believe a bit of vacuum behind the Platin pads aids with holding the slurry to them and egard the whole process as sanding as the Platin 2 pads are removing very fine nap from the workpiece.
2. I always forget to remove the cowl and even when I do, I don't notice significant difference, as the 1200 and 1500g pads have no holes anyway.

Regards

Uncle Albert (We're so sorry..)

 

[Dave Rudy]

The ensuing scramble to recover the coin was the start of a Sport which, in my view, has been totally ruined by allowing ladies, with very little clothing, to partake instead of the original urchins.

How much clothing did the original urchins have?

 

[Llap Goch]

How much clothing did the original urchins have?

Dave that is a very good question. I have checked in Llapipedia.

"Dress Standards for Urchins.    If you happen to be playing in the mud when a kind Gentleman throws a coin ensure you are properly dressed in full Highland Regalia with Sporrans dangling and Kilts fully buttoned. Dirks are optional."

Hope that answers the question.

 

[ROb McGilp]

I still don't believe it were a penny. At most a Scot w'd gi' ta ye a ha'penny (and want the farthing change)

Hoots Mon

Albert McFlay ( a' the Bonnie Doon McFlays)

 

[Llap Goch]

Mr McFly

You are spot on. A Scotsman would not have thrown a penny. But remember it was a Gentleman who threw the coin. (Probably an Irishman on Missionary Duties in Hootsmonland.)

Llapipedia definition of a Gentleman:

Someone who knows how to play the bagpipes......but doesn't.

 

[John Langevin]

Albert what is the "cowl" on the RO150 you are referring to? Do you have to use a "wet" filter on your vac? I am also concerned about possible damage to my CT22 from the oil, possible fire hazard?

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi John,
The "cowl" is the detachable part that clips underneath the back of the sander and connects the head to the vacuum connector. This can be removed for polishing. In fact, you could probably remove it during the sealing process(i.e. after you add the oil) as you don't really have a need to extract dust!
I think the chances of oil reaching the extraction system are extremely low. You develop a thick slurry within seconds of starting to sand, so all the oil/dust is trapped on the workpiece. I have a dust collection bucket between the tool I'm using and the vacuum unit which over the past 12 months has shown no signs of oil build up when I empty it. I also have a standard dry filter which comes with the Karcher and sits in place like on any other vacuum cleaner. This needs to be cleaned regularly and has shown no signs of oil build up. If you are concerned, I would suggest usong a wet filter and monitor it during the first one or two runs.

Regards,

Albert