ROTEX vs RO sanders

[striperseeker]

The pinned link with a discussion on sanders doesn't work anymore. I'm looking to get my first FS sander. I'm leaning towards the 125 ROTEX (I like 5" sheets, easier to get). Are these not considered a radom orbit as well? I was thinking the only difference is the ROTEX allows for changing gears to match the surfaces and need, but it is still an RO sander.
Any help is appreciated.

 

[nvalinski]

The Rotex sanders have two modes, the aggressive geared mode and the random orbit mode. The random orbit mode is decent, but it's a heavy sander if you are doing lots of fine sanding. The sander shines for really aggressive work, largely replacing a belt sander for me including knocking down rough sawn wood, getting into edges/corners in hardwood floor refinishing, etc. Depending on your use case/budget, Bosch makes a similar style to the Rotex that might be a good enough comparable sander for half the cost so that you can keep some cash for a nice finish sander as well like the ETS EC.

I'd also highly recommend looking at the 6"/150 mm options. I would not recommend grabbing 5" paper from the big box stores, particularly with a Rotex as it'll just eat up the paper. You'll probably find yourself buying better sandpaper from either Festool or 3M anyways, and the 150 mm diameter is a little easier to balance and control and be able to remove much more material at once. 

 

[mino]

Greenfied assumed, if a ROTEX, then the RO 150 is the way to go.

Festool has its own hole pattern anyway (better holes position on 5" and more holes on 6"), so you will not gain/lose anything if not on the Festool 5" platform already.

That said, if cost-pressed, you are much better served by the ETS EC 125/3 with a (compatible) 150 pad than with a Rotex.

The ETC EC is a "daily" tool for most people, unlike the ROTEX. So one can easily recoup the costs even with hobby use and it is a MUCH better sander than the "equivalent" Bosch or Dewalt are. Etc.

On the other hand, for a fast material removal, while the RO150 is arguably a better sander, and with compatible paper to the ETS EC, the Bosch equivalents are not too far behind.

The other option if one wanted to skip a ROTEX entirely is the ETC EC 150/5. It is a bit of a compromise that may allow you to skip a ROTEX for now. Unfortunately with the ETS EC 150 series one cannot use the 125 mm pads ...

IMO the holly grail, not having any sander around, is an ETS EC 125/3 with a set of 150 mm pads and a CT 15 (at least)*), then an RO 150 again using 150 mm Festool paper. Then I would add the ETSC 125 with the edge guide to it as budget allows and all bases are covered. Ah, and the wonderful RO 90 which includes a delta mode. Heh. It is so eeasy to drop down the rabbit hole ..

My 2c. For what it is not worth.

ADD:
*) If you do not have any Festool sander, I guess you likely do not have a quality dust extractor either. In that case, do yourself a favor and get (at least) the CT 15 to go along your first sander. The sander is almost dust-free when used with a vac - and you MUST use a vac with the ETS EC series - but if the vac filtration is not good, it just re-introduces the fine dust back into the air. Destroying the whole value of the system...

 

[squall_line]

IMO the holly grail, not having any sander around, is an ETS 125/3 with a set of 150 mm pads and a CT 15 (at least)*), then an RO 150 again using 150 mm Festool paper. Then I would add the ETSC 125 with the edge guide to it as budget allows and all bases are covered. Ah, and the wonderful RO 90 which includes a delta mode. Heh. It is so eeasy to drop down the rabbit hole ..

Did you mean ETS 125/3 or ETS EC 125/3 here?  I assume you meant ETS EC, since the ETS 125 is a 2mm sander and doesn't have any slash-variants, but wanted to make sure.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I went to get the RO 150 for my first sander and was talked out of it at the store. I left with the midi dust extractor and RO 90. Much smaller pad but so freaking versatile! I recently bought the ETS 125 REQ specifically to get the edge attachment to sand edges and I love it! The bonus is getting a bigger sander that is really nice in the hand. I'll end up with the RO 150 and the amazing ETC EC 150/3 as a daily driver when it's all said and done.

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[mino]

Did you mean ETS 125/3 or ETS EC 125/3 here?  I assume you meant ETS EC, since the ETS 125 is a 2mm sander and doesn't have any slash-variants, but wanted to make sure.

Good catch, was a typo. Fixed!

 

[Aux2496]

The most beneficial purpose of a Rotex is material removal.  However, any rotex is not going to be as good as a straight random orbit sander.  I agree with others that Rotex 150 is the best for a material removal.  You can switch the Rotex to a "random orbit only" mode, but the "orbits per minute" are not as good and they are also a large orbit diameter.

Since you are wanting to limit to 5" sanding paper, let's look at RO 125:
Beaver tools RO125

The RO 125 in random orbit mode supports up to 6,000 orbits per minute (opm) and has a somewhat larger sanding stroke at 3.6mm.  It will work as a "random orbit sander", but not nearly as good as the ETS EC models.  The ETS EC models will give up to 10,000 opm.

Generally, people will have multiple sanders.  I use a Rotex 150 to do major material removal (including sanding off excess glue lines) and then use the ETS 125 (2mm stroke) as a finishing sander.  I also use Rotex 90 for material removal in small places, but this is actually my least used sander.  I then use the ETS 125 (2mm) as a finishing sander (this is the 120/220 grit sand before you are applying finish).  The the ETS EC 125/3 is okay for this as well, but not quite as good for finishing sander.

The random orbit ETS EC 150/5 actually is very aggressive and does a pretty darn good job as material removal.  It's not quite as good as a full blown Rotex 150, but it's probably around 85% of the capability.  BUT, it's not a finishing sander.  I used my Rotex 150 to sand down the rough surface of fencing over about 150 feet of fence.  That's the kind of material removal the Rotex excels in.

If you don't think you need a super fast aggressive material removal, I would probably recommend a combination of ETS EC 150/5 and the ETS 125 (2mm).  The Rotex sanders are actually pretty heavy and require a certain technique to use effectively, but they are superior for major material removal.

If you wanted to only have one sander forever, the general compromise is the ETC EC 125/3.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have way too many Festool sanders including the Rotex 125. With a 60 grit paper in Rotex mode, you can hog out a lot of wood in a hurry. In RO mode, it is a great finish sander.

However, in Rotex mode, it can be very difficult to manage. It can get very wild darting off in any direction. It takes a measure of skill to get good results. There are any posts on adjusting the vacuum and how to hold the sander.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I have way too many Festool sanders including the Rotex 125.

No such thing says the guy with 11 of em! ;-)

 

[Leemstradamus]

I have way too many Festool sanders including the Rotex 125.

No such thing says the guy with 11 of em! ;-)

You have 11!? Wow. What's your break down for how you use them?

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[luvmytoolz]

I have way too many Festool sanders including the Rotex 125.

No such thing says the guy with 11 of em! ;-)

You have 11!? Wow. What's your break down for how you use them?

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I've been buying Festool for over 40 years now so a few are ancient, but I have the RS2E which is probably the best 1/2 sheet sander you'll ever find, which is used for grunt work on large flat surfaces usually 120 grit range, the BS105 belt sander with the frame for surfacing larger panels, 2 x RS300's that get used and abused for ad-hoc rough to medium grits on timber, the LS130 linear which is a sensational sander for mouldings, an RO90 which is used for heavy sanding on internal archs, etc, as well as polishing, ETS 150 which I don't really use since I got the ETC ES 150's in 3/5, which are my new favourite sanders for pretty much all medium to fine finish sanding. I also had the RO1E which is the original Rotex released around 1979 but I've now sold that as I'm planning to get the RO150. I think I got em all?

Not quite the same degree as routers (or clamps) which you can never have too many of, but it's super handy having a bunch of sanders ready to go with different papers and grits to just grab and work away!

 

[Leemstradamus]

That's amazing! I have the RO 90 and the ETS 125 REQ and love them! I want to get that ETC ES 150 5/3 but can't decide on which one yet.

Thanks for laying out how you use them. I'm just a hobbyist but like to think of how my collection can progress based on my needs

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[luvmytoolz]

That's amazing! I have the RO 90 and the ETS 125 REQ and love them! I want to get that ETC ES 150 5/3 but can't decide on which one yet.

Thanks for laying out how you use them. I'm just a hobbyist but like to think of how my collection can progress based on my needs

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I'm just a (fairly serious) hobbyist myself although I'm trying to make more of it, and as I'm quite time poor the value of having multiple tools ready to go at hand is just invaluable. And as I learnt very early on doing lots of carpentry jobs, they're an investment in time, health, cost, and usability, so when a promotions on if I can afford it I'll try to take advantage adding a tool a year.

My RO1E was made in 1979 and when I sold it recently it was for either $250 or $300 from memory. That's a helluva return on a 40+ year old tool, so worst case if times get tough, I can sell some tools. Another thing to note is that although Festool has always been relatively expensive, most of my tools are 15+ years old, it's the last 5 or so years for us in OZ the prices really jacked up, before that they weren't too terrible.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I'm still new, or at least I keep saying that to myself. I'm really inexperienced though. So it's been eye opening seeing the prices rise in the last 5 years. I think I'm going to start a thread on getting my shop changed around. It's my biggest frustration besides not getting things square. I'm about to build a new MFT style cart within the next week or so, depending on shipping.

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[luvmytoolz]

I'm still new, or at least I keep saying that to myself. I'm really inexperienced though. So it's been eye opening seeing the prices rise in the last 5 years. I think I'm going to start a thread on getting my shop changed around. It's my biggest frustration besides not getting things square. I'm about to build a new MFT style cart within the next week or so, depending on shipping.

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Experience simply comes with lots of practice and more importantly learning from mistakes. I had quite a poor upbringing so I learnt at an early age to tackle almost anything, and haven't stopped since! Having a decent workspace is definitely half the battle, and as experience grows good tools I reckon are the other half. If you're tight on work space, trolleys and benches on wheels are invaluable! I work out of a tiny space and pretty much everything I have is on wheels.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I'm still new, or at least I keep saying that to myself. I'm really inexperienced though. So it's been eye opening seeing the prices rise in the last 5 years. I think I'm going to start a thread on getting my shop changed around. It's my biggest frustration besides not getting things square. I'm about to build a new MFT style cart within the next week or so, depending on shipping.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Experience simply comes with lots of practice and more importantly learning from mistakes. I had quite a poor upbringing so I learnt at an early age to tackle almost anything, and haven't stopped since! Having a decent workspace is definitely half the battle, and as experience grows good tools I reckon are the other half. If you're tight on work space, trolleys and benches on wheels are invaluable! I work out of a tiny space and pretty much everything I have is on wheels.

My workspace isn't the smallest. I have a 3 car garage and I get to use two of the bays. The layout that I have mixed with failed ideas leaves it really cluttered. I'm still working on storage but I have so much crap, it always ends up on all the work surfaces.

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[mino]

I'm still new, or at least I keep saying that to myself. I'm really inexperienced though. So it's been eye opening seeing the prices rise in the last 5 years. I think I'm going to start a thread on getting my shop changed around. It's my biggest frustration besides not getting things square. I'm about to build a new MFT style cart within the next week or so, depending on shipping.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Experience simply comes with lots of practice and more importantly learning from mistakes. I had quite a poor upbringing so I learnt at an early age to tackle almost anything, and haven't stopped since! Having a decent workspace is definitely half the battle, and as experience grows good tools I reckon are the other half. If you're tight on work space, trolleys and benches on wheels are invaluable! I work out of a tiny space and pretty much everything I have is on wheels.

My workspace isn't the smallest. I have a 3 car garage and I get to use two of the bays. The layout that I have mixed with failed ideas leaves it really cluttered. I'm still working on storage but I have so much junk, it always ends up on all the work surfaces.

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This is getting OT, but will add one suggestion:

I believe the best way to sustainably de-clutter a workshop after a few years is to classity "things" into 4 categories:
A "daily" tools - thes MUST be immediately reachable (i.e. a shelf or easily accessible drawer where they can be placed back immediately with minimal effort), for some things - like drills - even having them permanently exposed can be a good strategy *)
B "occasional" tools - these MUST have their permanent place, it does NOT need to be easily accessible and it DOES need to be dust-proof *)
C "daily" consumables - these MUST be same-easy accessible as daily tools, one also needs *more* storage capacity than one has of them for temporary surges of per-project storage (which should be moved to long-term storage once project done)
D "occasional" consumables and project materials - does not really matter, but one needs to learn to never ever leave them at the workplace /unless using them/

Basically, the  objective is
- remove as much motivation to place "daily" tools and consumables at the work surfaces by making it extremely easy to not do so => a physical/storage strategy
- remove all "occasional" items from the work areas as soon as possible => a psychological strategy
- have a clear understanding (in the mind) which thing falls into "daily" and which into "occasional" so there i no "thinking" involved what to do with a thing

All this is actually pretty logical - having easy-access storage space for daily stuff is efficient and "just worth it". Placing "away" things which we will not need in another month is also "just worth it". Yet, people often tend to focus on the "storage space" for the occasional items "to keep them away" ... only to have our daily items keep re-cluttering our workplaces .. resulting in a circle of frustration. After all, "we spent so much of time money and it is still a mess" after all that! Well, it is soo so easy spending the "storage budget" on things which actually never deserved that level of attention .. to have very little or none left for those which did.

*) A Systainer is a very bad place for "daily" tools unless in a SYSPORT or an equivalent arrangement. It is an excellent place for "occasional" tools though.

 

[Leemstradamus]

Thanks for some awesome advice. Some things may seem pretty logical to others but may be overlooked or just not as obvious to some. I may have fallen in the latter. Sorry about taking this thread OT. I started a thread of my own over here.https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...orkshop-and-take-organization-to-a-new-level/

 

[Crazyraceguy]

*) A Systainer is a very bad place for "daily" tools unless in a SYSPORT or an equivalent arrangement. It is an excellent place for "occasional" tools though.

Agreed 100%. Seeing Systainers in stacks, unless being transported to/from jobsites, drives me crazy.
Lined up directly behind where I stand at the assembly bench, in shop-built Sysports, is very easy to deal with.
I have them arranged in the order that seems to work best. In general, the most used at or near the top, then progressively down from there. The exception to this is the TS. They are down fairly low, because of the way they are drawn out of the container, rather than frequency of use. I keep them at the end of the run, which is closest to the cross-cut table.
I put some things away as I work, to keep the clutter under control, and everything goes away at the end of the day. I'm in a shared space, leaving things out is not the best idea.

 

[Leemstradamus]

The plan is to do a sys cabinet like I did over my bench in my new MFT center. One side will have all the systainers that I need close by or that I am using for the project. I'm really interested in getting all the fasteners and other things I use like drill bits all contained within systainers.

I'm looking to do something close to this.