Router direction using rails and rail guide

[UncleJoe]

I think I have this right but I wanted to check myself on this. When making a series of dados using a router and the track and rail guide I am moving the router from left to right. Am I correct on this? I know it is a stupid question but all of a sudden I was doubting myself and figured you guys would know. There are a lot of videos but I could not find information specific to using a rail guide and the 1400

Thanks for helping out

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Yep - correct.

You move the router in exactly the same way as you would if you weren't using a rail. If you tried routing from right to left (or backwards towards you) bad things might happen ....

 

[bobtskutter]

I think it makes a difference which side of the router is against the rail.

If the router was standing up as normal on your workpiece, the bit will turn in a clockwise direction.  If you are running the router along a straight edge, you want the edge of the board in front of you, then the router, then the straight edge.  Move the router left to right to make the cut.  The cutting edge on the bit will want to pull the router towards the straight edge, and away from you.  i.e. the router will be trying to move towards the straight edge, which will help you get a straight line.

Bob

 

[jeffinsgf]

Moving left to right avoids climb cutting, and if you are riding a base against a straight edge, then that is the best way to do it.

However, with a captured guide ridge like you have with a Festool rail and Festool guide, the router isn't going to try and run away from the fence, if you climb cut.

I'm not suggesting you do that. There are very specific times when it is advantageous, but for the most part, go with your original instinct and cut from left to right. If your material is chippy and prone to splintering, you can VERY CAREFULLY climb cut using the rail and still be confident in getting a straight line. Take light passes and be very aware that the router is trying to self-feed.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

There is a big difference between running a router along a straight edge and having it completely constrained by a guide rail. But the real issue here is that cutting dados (or grooves) is also inherently different from rabbets (rebate) A dado is a 180 degree cut, meaning that you are cutting with the entire leading edge (half a circle). That means there is no danger here. Half the bit is trying to climb, the other half is under cutting, they balance each other out. The point of cutting left to right is that the rotation directing does pull the router against a straight edge. If you tried to go from the opposite side, it would pull away. This ruins your cut....but it is not a climb cut. An unrestrained router will always pull to the left (as you push it away from yourself) With a router that is held by the rods, it can't do that either.
Try widening your dado, with a second pass, by moving the straight edge the wrong way, that's a climb cut. Only part of the bit is cutting, the part that wants to grab and self-feed. This is the dangerous part. If your depth of cut is enough, the router will run away from you.
There is a lot of nuance involved here, so it is generally recommended to just stick with "the rules", because accidentally breaking them is so bad.
However there is a point to be made about chip-out, splintering, and general chaos. You can under cut all day long on plywood, particle board, MDF, etc. but "real wood" (solid wood) is not so friendly about that. There is a reason to make climb cuts, but you really need to know what you are doing.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Much more accurately stated. Thanks CRG.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Much more accurately stated. Thanks CRG.

I typed that whole thing and almost deleted it. It's a very nuanced conversation that may be better demonstrated, than written? I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

"Stick with the rules until you know how and why to break them."

 

[bobtskutter]

An unrestrained router will always pull to the left (as you push it away from yourself)

That is the simplest way I've seen it explained.  Thanks!
Knowing the router always "goes left when you push it away from yourself" allows you to position the rail or edge guide in the correct position.  rail on the left for the router to push against, edge guide on the right for the router to pull against.

Regards
Bob

 

[Packard]

1.  Turn your router upside down. (If you are working by yourself, this is not embarrassing.) [smile]
2.  Look at the cutting edge of the bit.  It will indicate which direction the bit rotates and which direction to move the router (opposite the direction of rotation).
3.  (Optional), use a magic marker and draw an arc and an arrowhead on the base (topside) to indicate the direction of rotation.

Always move in the direction opposite of the arrow. 

I’ve always wondered why router manufacturers don’t mold a rotation direction on the base.

In any case, you can always just look at the router bit’s cutting edge to determine the direction of the cut.

 

[hdv]

"I’ve always wondered why router manufacturers don’t mold a rotation direction on the base."

Maybe, because it depends on what you are doing? Or more accurately, on the user understanding what they are doing? For example, routing on the inside or outside of a workpiece dictates whether you need to go clock-wise or anti-clock-wise.

I do realise that up or down (in this case in the horizontal plane) will also mean the opposite site of the bit makes contact with the workpiece, and thus will require a different direction of routing.

I bet the manufacturers don't want to take the risk of people misunderstanding the arrow and being able to point an accusatory finger to them.

 

[Packard]

[…]I bet the manufacturers don't want to take the risk of people misunderstanding the arrow and being able to point an accusatory finger to them.

That is probably the only reason that makes sense.

And I do find it confusing when routing the interior of a rectangle.  The only way I can make sense of it is to start the cut and not stop going in the same direction until I come to the starting point again.

Happily, the router table never confuses me.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

For heaven's sake.

The poor, worried guy just needed a 'Yes' or a 'No'. My short reply told him everything he needed to know at that point in his project, and it directly answered his question in TWO WORDS. Everything else posted above is in complete agreement with those two words, but it's also totally 'word-soup' over-complicated - and doesn't (in any conceivable way) serve to reassure the OP or eliminate his fundamental worry that he's doing it right and doing it safely - which was the entire objective of his question. If I was the OP - I'd now be like a rabbit in the headlights trying to digest the snowstorm of extra technically-correct-but-100%-not-needed information which has just confused the bejeezus out of me. Dado-widening? Climb cutting? Turning the router upside down? Rail orientation? Moulded base-cutter-rotation-direction?

Read the OP again. And also read between the lines. Do any of you really think any of this extra stuff is gonna help the guy by giving him some confidence and reassurance? Spoiler alert - no, it’s not.

We have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that ratio, guys. Keep it simple. The top #10 biggest-selling records in history only have 3 chords.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

(Snip)

I’ve always wondered why router manufacturers don’t mold a rotation direction on the base.

I just checked, all of my Festool routers (700, 1010, 1400) all have the tool rotation milled into the base, I think my Makita routers have the same or similar......

 

[Packard]

If you have any ability to judge spatial relationships, looking at the router bit (turning the router upside down), is the easiest way to tell.

Someone looking at a router mounted on a router table would never have an issue on which way to feed the material.  Turning a router upside down mimics that. 

I can think of no simpler way to teach someone which direction to feed a router than observing the mounted router bit.

 

[rvieceli]

all my DeWalts also have the rotation arrow molded into the base as well

Ron

 

[Packard]

I have Porter Cable 690s.  I’m pretty sure there is no rotation shown on them.  I do have a recently purchased DeWalt compact.  I will take a look at that when I get home. 

 

[hdv]

I am not in disagreement with you [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]

So to make things easy to understand for the OP, not only now, but in future situations as well, here's a checklist you can run through to find out for yourself if what you are about to do is the correct way of doing it [1]:

- Look at your right hand
- Curl your fingers
- Put your thumb out
- Make your thumb point in the direction of the end of the router bit *as it is placed in the router when performing the routing*
- Your fingers will now show you in what direction the cutting edge of your bit is rotating
- Make sure you always move the wood in the opposite direction at the point of contact

I hope that will help you easily determine in all situations if what you are doing is the right thing to do.

[1] In the vein of don't give them fish, but teach them to fish.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have Porter Cable 690s.  I’m pretty sure there is no rotation shown on them.  I do have a recently purchased DeWalt compact.  I will take a look at that when I get home.

The old-school 690s probably don't, but a lot of the newer models do. I know my Bosch Colts do, as well as the Makita.

While I tend to agree with the simple answer position, I can't take it. For me "why" is important. I absolutely will not listen to a person who cannot explain why they want me to do something a specific way. "Just because" or "that's the way we have always done it" are a non-starter.

Yes, the whole "turn it upside down" was probably overkill, in this context anyway. That one confuses a lot of people.

Part of this is also my lefthandedness. I much prefer to pull a router toward me. This looks very awkward to right handers. Funny thing is, I have a tendency to use the OF routers more right handed, though not always.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] 100% fair enough buddy - I’m pretty much the same. I don’t know about you, but even after 38 years as a pro, once in a blue moon I’ll suddenly have a ‘senior moment’ and think “Am I doing this right?”. At that point - I just need a ‘Yes’. A full-on technical explanation isn’t needed. I meant no disrespect to anyone who kindly offered one.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] 100% fair enough buddy - I’m pretty much the same. I don’t know about you, but even after 38 years as a pro, once in a blue moon I’ll suddenly have a ‘senior moment’ and think “Am I doing this right?”. At that point - I just need a ‘Yes’. A full-on technical explanation isn’t needed. I meant no disrespect to anyone who kindly offered one.

Kevin, No offense taken, I know what you mean. Some people don't want/need the whole explanation, they even tune out.