Router Lifts and Quick Change Chucks / Collets

D

dlu

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Apr 3, 2014
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I'm trying to streamline my work at the router table and I'm thinking about getting a quick change chuck or collet for my PC 7518 which is mounted in an Incra (modified Jessem) Mast-R-Lift II.

I'm open to suggestions, but am currently leaning towards the MuscleChuck. They are available in a standard and an extended version.  Any experience with this setup? Advice on which way to go? I'm leaning towards the standard length chuck since I can get the PC chuck above the table for bit changes, but I was wondering if the longer one would make it even easier. My concern with the longer chuck is loss of capacity for shallow cuts with a long bit and perhaps more runout and/or vibration.
 
I have been using the several of the MuscleChucks for many years on Porter Cable & Bosch routers, in & out of router tables.
I have nothing bad to say about them. They work great.
 
I've been looking for a product like this but never knew what to call it!  I've been using an "extender" because I can't deal with the two wrenches, but that caused other issues.  This shorter chuck thing sounds great.

Curious why you didn't consider the Eliminator by Infinity.  Seems like the price is similar.  I'm wondering if you know something I don't. 
 
TealaG said:
Curious why you didn't consider the Eliminator by Infinity.  Seems like the price is similar.  I'm wondering if you know something I don't.
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I don't know much... There are a few chucks on the market that seem very similar to the Musclechuck - both in design concept, the details of execution, and price. Joe DeRosa has (although it may no longer be providing him with any protection) a patent on the design, so I would guess that the others are either relabeled Musclechucks or pretty blatant copies of his design.

The company has been great to deal with and since it looks pretty close to a wash price wise, I figured I'd rather have my money going to the inventor. It also makes me feel better about asking them questions. As an aside, I just went and checked out the Infinity offering and the reviews of Infinity's customer service are not glowing. So that would be another reason.
 
I've been using the Eliminator since it was first released on my PC 7518 in my router table.  It has worked great for me all these years.
 
Wow, never knew these existed.  [smile]  If I understand correctly, this could be a way of fitting a 1/2" diameter cutter into a 1010 router?

For those who have installed this in their routers, did you adjust the MuscleChuck for minimum runout?

FWIW...
Watching the video, on a stock PC router they had .001" runout, after adding the MC, it brought it to .0035" runout, turning the MC 1/4 turn CW it now became .0055" runout and then finally, turning the MC 1/2 turn CCW it settled back down to .001" runout.

 
How does a Musclechuck fit a Festool OF 1010? I didn’t see any 8mm adapter listed, but that kind of info is surprisingly scant at his site.
 
Michael Kellough said:
How does a Musclechuck fit a Festool OF 1010? I didn’t see any 8mm adapter listed, but that kind of info is surprisingly scant at his site.
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If I had to guess I would say the 1010 listing is a mistake. There is no way the same chuck would fit a 1010 and a 2200. The chuck’s best feature is that it has a tapered body that fits into the spindle taper just like a standard collet would and is secured with a threaded element that emulates a collet nut. This makes the whole unit pretty much a monolithic extension of the spindle. This is much better than a shanked extension held in a standard collet into which a router bit shank is inserted. The least rigid point of the latter is that shank inserted into the standard collet. The muscle chuck does away with this weak point. I think of it as an ‘over spindle adapter’ as opposed to an’in the spindle adapter’.

All of this does not mean a muscle chuck couldn’t be designed around an OF1010 but I don’t see any way it could work with anything larger than an 8mm shank (maybe 10mm).
 
Thanks for the explanation Greg. Didn’t understand how the thing worked but now it’s even more interesting. Disappointing though that it probably doesn’t fit the 1010.
 
Well unfortunately, none of the non-users of this product know how this contraption works because the website is a cluster as far as explaining the basic design principles behind this accessory.

This was the reason for my shout out to the users so that we could start a conversation.
If you go to the website they list the same adapter is needed for the 1010, the 1400 and the 2200...we know that’s BS.

I then also looked at Milwaukee routers which I also own and the 3 1/4 HP version only comes with a 3/8” collet. Well we know that’s also crazy.

I came away with the idea that each adapter is manufactured to fit its particular router and then the MuscleChuck is counterbored to fit a 1/2” diameter router bit. That’s the reason different router collets are offered, and none are over 12 mm.  If this is indeed the situation, it’s a pretty slick setup.
 
I think you have that right. The Musclechuck itself is 1/2" only - with collet reducers for 6, 8 and 12 mm and 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8".

I asked them about the 1010 and got a reply that they thought that was a mistake - I suggested they remove the 1010 from their list, but for some reason they haven't done so. I think there are a lot of small companies that contract out their webmaster work and I wonder if it is a question of the cost of getting someone to do the work or the possibility that that person is no longer around...

Anyway, I've been super happy with the quality of the product and the support that they provide.

They offer to produce custom chucks (and custom sized collets) - I wonder if they could/would produce one for the 1010 and 700 if we showed them enough potential volume.
 
dlu said:
I think you have that right. The Musclechuck itself is 1/2" only - with collet reducers for 6, 8 and 12 mm and 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8".

I asked them about the 1010 and got a reply that they thought that was a mistake
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Well thanks for the input.  [smile]  I'll drop them an email and ask about the 1010. It would be a sweet way to use that odd 1/2" router bit on a 1010.
 
Thinking about the Musclechuck on an OF 1010,
it could be a benefit to use a small 1/2” bit in that compact plunge router.

The extra 1/2” of collet isn’t a big deal since the stock collet can already plunge to the bottom of the base.

Even faster bit change would be the prime benefit and if run out can be minimized it would be worth it.
 
I agree that the website doesn't explain the concept well.  I have the xtreme xtension and when I saw the muscle chuck, I thought something was "missing".  Yeah...this thing doesn't go in like a router bit.  This muscle chuck replaces the collet nut and collet!  I love the idea and hope it works. 

I'm struggling with standard two wrench bit changes (and as a result avoid using my router, even though I love the result).  So use of an allen wrench...one tool, to change the bit is very appealing to me.  I finally got that xtreme thing working but I can't lower the bit below the table.  Now that I use the router table as an "extension" of the table saw table, not being able to lower the bit is now a huge problem, thus, why I started searching for a shorter alternative. 

I find that the "basic" package at $106 is ridiculous.  I found the same wrench for $3 (or a premium one for $7) and an insert for the 1/4" bits for $13 (though, I may be able to reuse the one that came with the xtreme) and then the chuck for $70.  Now at closer to $90, I'm happier.  There's no need to over charge for a collet reducing thingie and a wrench!!!
 
TealaG said:
I agree that the website doesn't explain the concept well.  I have the xtreme xtension and when I saw the muscle chuck, I thought something was "missing".  Yeah...this thing doesn't go in like a router bit.  This muscle chuck replaces the collet nut and collet!  I love the idea and hope it works. 

I'm struggling with standard two wrench bit changes (and as a result avoid using my router, even though I love the result).  So use of an allen wrench...one tool, to change the bit is very appealing to me.  I finally got that xtreme thing working but I can't lower the bit below the table.  Now that I use the router table as an "extension" of the table saw table, not being able to lower the bit is now a huge problem, thus, why I started searching for a shorter alternative. 

I find that the "basic" package at $106 is ridiculous.  I found the same wrench for $3 (or a premium one for $7) and an insert for the 1/4" bits for $13 (though, I may be able to reuse the one that came with the xtreme) and then the chuck for $70.  Now at closer to $90, I'm happier.  There's no need to over charge for a collet reducing thingie and a wrench!!!
Click to expand...

Are you really kibitzing over $90? The man has invented something useful and high quality and is wanting to recoup his development costs. I'd reevaluate staying in the hobby (If that is what it is for you. It's not for me) if $16 is an issue. I seriously doubt the $13 insert is of the same quality as his. Take a look at the videos and compare it to yours. Everyone here appreciates the value of a system and this system has multiple parts that are designed to work together (less the wrench). It this exact mentality of trying to save a nickel on every last item that hurts US companies and discourages them from creating new products.
 
Interesting comment by [member=15585]Svar[/member] in the Musclechuck, any one using it? thread - quick summary is that while traditional tapered collet designs will naturally center bits with slightly differing shank diameters, designs like the Musclechuck seem to depend on accurately and consistently sized bit shanks. I wonder how much variation there is in bits from good vendors (e.g., Whiteside, CMT, etc.) and how much is tolerable.
 
Seems like a high quality product developed by a guy who seems very serious about providing a good product. Tell me, though, why do you need a quick change chuck? I use the PC7518 in an Incra table with an Incra Master Lift. It doesn't seem that difficult to change bits.

I never discourage buying a new tool; just wondering what I'm missing.
 
grbmds said:
Tell me, though, why do you need a quick change chuck? I use the PC7518 in an Incra table with an Incra Master Lift. It doesn't seem that difficult to change bits.
Click to expand...

Need is a high bar, as you say it is not that difficult to change bits in that combination, but...

What I noticed was that I found myself looking for ways to avoid changing bits, so it seemed worth checking out one of the quick change chucks. Given Musclechuck's 30-day money back guarantee, it seemed like there was little to lose. So far, I'm quite happy with it and I like the idea of having a single tool that could be used for changing bits on any of my routers.
 
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