Sander Help

[BarnyardTim]

Hey Festool Junkies, I need help.  Thinking of a new Festool sander but am having some concerns.  I build tables and other furniture from reclaimed barn wood.  Table tops usually get lightly planed, but all the other lumber is only sanded to various degrees.  Usually start with 80g and finish to 150g, tops get 220g as well.  Here are my concerns, maybe someone can steer me in the right direction:

1.  Currently using Diablo discs, which get shredded quickly by the weathered rough cut lumber.  I don't want to be ripping through $20 worth of Festool discs on a table.  Is it unreasonable to expect the Festool discs to hold up much better than the current discs?

2.  Dust, or should I say splinter collection.  My current Dewalt ROS does fairly well paired with a CT 36 for dust, however it doesn't gather the splinters that come off during the rough sanding.  Again, is it unreasonable to expect the Festool to do much better?

I was ready to purchase the ETS 150/5, but I don't want to be disappointed with the purchase if it doesn't handle the issues that make me want a better sander.  Thoughts, recommendations?  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[tjbnwi]

These are specific issues to what you do. The 30 day return policy may be your best bet. Buy paper in the smaller quantities and give it a try. Granat has a pretty though backing, but its not indestructible.

Tom

 

[rvieceli]

I personally think that Festool makes great sanders and paper but I don't think you'd see orders of magnitude differences in either of your issues.

I would suggest taking a look at a half sheet sander for you needs. There are two that I would suggest the Festool RS2 and the Makita BO4900. Both have pretty good dust collection and both can use Festool paper as well as sheet paper which opens a whole range of choices on the paper front. You'll need to get the hole punch plate for either to use sheet paper and get dust collection

They do a great job sanding and keeping stuff flat.

 

[GarryMartin]

Festool USA do a great little flow chart to help with selecting an appropriate sander.http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/how_to_pick_the_right_festool_sander.pdf

Based on what you've said, the ETS 150/5 would be a good choice, as would the RO 150. The RO 150 has the same stroke of 5mm in RO mode as the ETS but is larger and there is more of a knack to handling and using it effectively. I have the RO 150 and an ETS 150/3 which is a great combination right the way through grits to final finish, especially with the 3mm orbit on the latter.

If you're likely to want more aggressive removal capabilities, go with the RO 150. In Rotex mode with low grit paper it will eat through wood.

I think any paper/sander/extractor will struggle with splinters if they're large enough. They basically have to be small enough to get sucked through the holes, so we're mostly talking dust extraction. I'd say it's unreasonable to expect any manufacturer for RO sanders to do much better to be honest.

For bare wood, Rubin 2 is usually suggested as the most appropriate Festool paper. Granat is also a good choice.

Granat will last longer than Rubin, but has a thinner backing material and produces a more aggressive scratch pattern. If sanding a lot of corners or edges that may tend to snag the abrasive's sheet, Rubin would be less prone to tearing.

Sanding bare wood with Granat has no advantages and costs more. BUT it has no disadvantages except price. At 100, 120, 140 there's no real difference between Rubin 2 and Granat.

Because of the composition of the Granat papers, they last longer, so the price per sheet may balance out and Granat is also great for finish sanding and for use with the newer European VOC compliant paints. Granat lasts about 4x longer than Rubin, 2x longer than Brilliant 2, and about the same as Cristal.

To keep things simple in my own workshop, I use Granat exclusively.

 

[chrisrosenb]

For the work you say you will be doing say I would recommend one of the ETS EC sanders of one of the Rotex sanders. I am sold on the new ETS EC sanders because of their ease of use, the ability to sand one handed & are equal to the sanding sanding ability of the Rotex sanders.

 

[bkharman]

I would say you might want to pick up a linear sander. I actually use my LS130 for not only profiles, but for faces as well. It should help with some of the splintering. Not too many sanders are going to pick that splintering up with the sand. It may get some, but not all.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[BarnyardTim]

All-  thanks for the quick input and advice. Still confused on what to do, maybe I just need to wait for the old dewalt to bite the dust. The pad is beat up really bad, but for the nature of work I do it doesn't matter much, a new pad would be destroyed in a week anyway. Maybe I'm searching for a sander that doesn't exist.

 

[ear3]

Welcome to the forum.

Since you are planing the wood I assume the boards are not too rough on the top, and the problem areas where chipping occurs is on the edges?  Meaning, at what point are you getting the splinters?   

As already suggested, I would take advantage of the 30 day return policy and test out a couple of different sanders.  My first choice for your application would be the ETS-EC 150/5, though the RO150 is a close second, given that you're working with reclaimed wood.  The RO150 in gear driven mode is the fastest, but in random orbit mode, the ETS-EC has it beat, and you would normally want to end up in random orbit mode on the finishing grits.  Another advantage of the ETS-EC 150 is that you can get away with using it for edge work on thick boards, whereas the bulk of the RO150 makes it more difficult to use on edges without rounding them -- though maybe this is not a concern with the type of wood you're using.  Ideally you would want to pair it with another sander for edge and corner work, like the DTS or RTS400, or the RO90.

There is no comparison between Festool abrasives and Diablo.  I use Granat exclusively on bare wood, since it wears the longest, but I know a lot of people like the Rubin.   

 

[Holmz]

You do not stand a chance gathering Splinters.
Maybe try the Mirka screens on your existing sander?

I have a DEROS which is similar to the ETS EC 150/5. It is faster than a good 1/2 sheet, but I use a 1/2 sheet a lot. But also with Mirka screens.

You can get those screens on amazon and elsewhere and it is a low risk option to see if it works. You could also try FT papers on the existing sander, if you poke the holes in it .

 

[junk731]

You will eat both Festool and Mirka  papers especially the Abranet, mainly because of its screen design plus most of the Mirka paper is more expensive then the Festool. Don't ask me how I know, but I'm well versed in destroying paper on crap, I mean ecologically friendly recycled wood. The Makita Wheel Sander with the nylox brushes will help out a lot with what you are doing and has good dust collection. Festool or Mirka just don't have anything like it NA.
http://makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?Name=9741

John

 

[mkasdin]

I would be tempted to first use a hand planer to remove the high spots. A picture would help but based on reclaimed wood with a rough hewn. I think this would skip the lower grit sand fabrics (papers). Edges I would rip with a track saw to do a quick clean up. I would say the that a planer would make quick work of the faces. I like having options so both the ro-150 and the ets/ec 150 would be nice. If I had to pick one it might be a toss up depending on your workflow. Some of the local dealers have demo tools so you might bring in a sample pieces and see which one works best if your on a budget. To me the ro 150 in gear mode works more like a grinder and people will use it for finish.

 

[rvieceli]

That Makita wheeled brush sander is interesting. But consumables (the brushes) start around $150 and go up.  [eek]

I wonder how long they last.

 

[AlexThePalex]

1.  Currently using Diablo discs, which get shredded quickly by the weathered rough cut lumber.  I don't want to be ripping through $20 worth of Festool discs on a table.  Is it unreasonable to expect the Festool discs to hold up much better than the current discs?

If you shred your current discs easily you will also shred the Festool discs very quickly. The backing pads of most Festool papers are too thin for my taste.

There is however one type of Festool paper that is very strong: Saphir. It doesn't have a paper backing, but some kind of woven cloth, and it is very durable. This paper is made for the rougher jobs. It does only come up to 80 grit, I don't know if that's fine enough for your needs. But you'd have to try really hard to shred this paper.

A really good sandpaper that might suit you is a type made by FlexOvit, but I don't know if that's available to you. Even here in Europe it is very hard to find a dealer. The type of paper I speak of is very tough and very sharp and lasts very long. Almost as hard as those sanding discs you can get for an angle grinder, but made for normal sanders. Best paper I know of, but very hard to come by.

I was ready to purchase the ETS 150/5, but I don't want to be disappointed with the purchase if it doesn't handle the issues that make me want a better sander.  Thoughts, recommendations?  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I think I would prefer to use a Rotex 150 on reclaimed timber, doing the first pass with the aggressive mode might speed up work considerably.

 

[BarnyardTim]

Planing would definitely take care of the sanding problem, but my customers want to keep as much as the character as possible and planing removes too much in most cases.

I forgot about that Mikita brush sander. I need to look into it again along with the RO and flexovit discs. Thanks guys for the suggestions.

 

[junk731]

That Makita wheeled brush sander is interesting. But consumables (the brushes) start around $150 and go up.  [eek]

I wonder how long they last.

Longer then the equivalent 2 boxes of paper lasts. Like a lot of tools its not really a hobby tool and designed with production in mind and various heads depending on the work. Also where consumables are a part of the job and a business expense.

John

 

[BarnyardTim]

Thanks everyone, I'm going to give the Mikita wheel brush a try. Even at $150 a pop for brushes if I can get 3-4 tables out of them and it saves all the heavier grit sanding it will be well worth it.

 

[Holmz]

You will eat both Festool and Mirka  papers especially the Abranet, mainly because of its screen design plus most of the Mirka paper is more expensive then the Festool. Don't ask me how I know, but I'm well versed in destroying paper on crap, I mean ecologically friendly recycled wood. The Makita Wheel Sander with the nylox brushes will help out a lot with what you are doing and has good dust collection. Festool or Mirka just don't have anything like it NA.
http://makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?Name=9741

John

The adraidnet HD is a different beast, bt the finer screens are easy to tear.

Good call on the brush !

 

[BarnyardTim]

FYI for anyone interested, it appears that Festool does make a brush sander similar to the Makita.  I think I'll still go with the Makita as I doubt the Festool is available in NA and is quite z bit more expensive.

Festool Brush