Should I buy Festool

[putttn]

I'm returning to woodworking after a 30+ year layoff.  Can't say I was a woodworker but I did do some minor woodworking tasks.  I recently purchased a Shopsmith that was used but in new condition.  I have a space problem so that's why SS interested me--until I made the mistake of going to the Woodcraft store and saw Festool.  I'm really challenged by all the setup that has to be done to accomplish tasks on the table saw but could readily relate to the Festool table/saw/router etc concept.  My question is since I have very little invested in woodworking tools is this a good time to start purchasing, can these tools take up a small footprint?  Or, should I just stay with the SS and grow in my skills?

 

[Tinker]

I have used the SS years ago (many many years ago).  I have been using Festool toys for 3 or 4 years.  I don't think the two are even in the same ball park.  Some space oriented operations that are better with Festool:
1  Much less room and quicker setup for all cross cutting
2  Much less room needed for ripping with Festool
3  You can do all of your routing in the same space as you do your crosscutting and ripping.
4  You can do all of your sanding in the same space as you have done all of the above
5  You can the n do all assembly in same space as all of the above
6  You do not need as much headroom (tilting guidebars on MFT vs tilting entire machine)
7  You can do all of above and still have space on the work area to set a cup of coffee or          beer.
8  During all operations for all of above, you can keep all power tools needed set up and within reach without the need to strip down any tool to prepare for the next operation.  Also, for nearly all of above, you will not need to keep a toolbox full of wrenches close by and ready.
9  If, as I sometimes find necessary, you need to move your operation outside where space is unlimited, you just remove guidebar from MFT, fold MFT legs and move the workspace outside.  Try that with a SS.
10  Once table (work space) has been transferred to more open space, put all tools into respective systainers, lock the whole pile into one stack and carry them outside in one trip.  you won't even need to call in the neighbors, or a moving company to move entire shop.
11  I am sure others can come up with other easons.  i am speaking from experince of having far to small a work space to play with all of my toys.

Have fun and here's to lots of sawdust in your teeth.  (Old biker's observation that you can tell a happy biker by the number of bugs on his teeth)
Tinker

 

[putttn]

Tinker, are you a biker?  I'm an old (63) HD rider then moved to Goldwing.  Sold all those out and replaced with bicycle and now trying to go back to woodworking as a hobby.  Only have had the SS for a few weeks and found that it takes up too much space in garage.  Want to get into making book shelves, shop storage, tool storage projects and once I saw the Festool I could understand all the angles etc easier than on SS.  Would I miss the orbital sander and the drill press functions or are there replacement functions with the Festool?  Also, would I miss the table saw function.  Remember, I'm not into furniture making yet, maybe someday when I'm capable.

 

[bill-e]

I'm not a believer in using inferior tools (or inferior anything) to "grow your skills".  Often times the quality of the tool will either enhance or detract from your experience.

Is Festool the right tool system for you?  I don't know, that's up to you to decide.  I can say with confidence that the justification of using a SS because your a novice is just bunk.  Get the right tool for the job (whatever that is) and you will be more likely to enjoy what you are doing.  Buy what makes you happy.

And everyone is capable of making furniture right from the start.  The only difference will be the size of the scrap pile when you're finished   Just be demanding and the finished product will look great.

 

[Ned]

...I have a space problem so that's why [Shopsmith] interested me.... Or, should I just stay with the SS and grow in my skills?

Welcome, Putttn, and thanks for an excellent first post.  I think many people with space constraints have asked/will ask the Shopsmith vs. Festool question.

Tinker's response is right on the money and thorough.  Here are a few more points:

• Festool's excellent dust collection.  The Festool vac and the MFT table are at the core of the Festool system.
• "should I just stay with the SS and grow in my skills?":  Why not grow your skills with tools you won't outgrow?

Ned

 

[Bob Marino]

I think you have gotten some excellent answers already. That's part of the value of this forum - expert, hands-on type responses almost immediately.

Bob

 

[Dan Clark]

Welcome Putttn,

I've never used a Shop Smith, but have a space issue like you do.  Also, my "woodworking" right now is a lot of house remodeling projects.  Whether you do "traditional" woodworking, you are remodeling your house, or you are working on-site at a customer location, the beauty of Festools is that you can set up your "shop" where it works best.  When done, you can break down your "shop", and move it to a new work location or store your shop in a convenient, compact space. 

My current shop is my bathroom.  In a couple of months, it will be in my garage.  After that it will be in a large crawl space building some large shelving or in the back yard rebuilding a cedar fence.  Then, I'll replace all of the doors and moldings in my house.  After that, who knows - maybe some new shelving and built-in furniture in my office.  The beauty of Festools is that, instead of taking your work to your shop, you take your shop to your work. 

Another thing is that your dynamic "shop" can be quickly custom-tuned to the work.  You just look at your stack of Festools and pick "one from column A, one from column B, etc".  As your wants, needs, and problems change, your "shop" dynamically changes to meet your wants, needs, and problems at that moment. 

Below is a pic of my current "shop" (master bath) and below that is a promo pic of the new Kapex in another "shop".    Location is different, many of the "shop" components are different (I have an MFT 1080 and the Kapex is on an MFT 800), and the job is massively different. 

The "shop" in my bathroom pic is my "sheet rock hangin' shop".  I just finished hanging most of the ceiling sheet rock.    Cutting and hanging sheet rock is dusty.  The vacuum attachment on the end of the CT22 hose took care of the dust.  Not shown is my Rotozip with dust attachment that I connected to the CT22 to cut some openings.  The C12 drill has the new Depth Stop Chuck that works great for installing sheetrock screws.  My MFT with clamps is great for holding and cutting smaller sheets of sheetrock (that's sheetrock  under the C12).  But...

My "shop" this week is my electrical shop (no pic).  No sheetrock in evidence.  The MFT is clear except for the vent fan fixtures and the lighting fixtures, my C12 drill, and a bunch of screws and other oddments for installing the electrical stuff.  This will take at least a couple of weekends. 

In 2-3 weeks, I'll start building the tub deck and shower curb - some real wood working!  (Well, it does involve wood.)    Lots of 2X4's and 2X6's to cut.  Some 3/4" ply for the deck top.  I'll need a woodworking shop in my bathroom.  The MFT will become my "table saw".  I'll clear a space on the floor to cut the 3/4" ply.  Why run up and down the stairs to a shop when I cut the components 5 feet away from where they will be installed!?!

Get the picture?  Your "shop" grows and changes to meet your needs.  As you grow and your needs change, you just buy more tool components and add them to the "shop" mix.  Take a look at the Boom Arm in my "shop" pic.  That's only about 10 days old.  I got REALLY tired of tripping on cords and hoses.  I.e., my needs changed.  So I bought the Boom Arm from Uncle Bob and changed my "shop" once again. 

Besides all of the other reasons mentioned previously, this is why I like Festool.  Good luck with your choices,

Dan.

 

[Ned]

...store your shop in a convenient, compact space. 

Just out of curiosity I measured the footprint my Festool shop takes up.

• 30"x37":  4 roller carts with stacks of Systainers containing every Festool I own.
• 53"x30":  Footprint of MFT 1080.  CT22 vac stows underneath.
• 36"x80":  Size of foam-topped door I use for large panel cutting.  On saw horses, it can be collapsed.
• 0:  Guide rails hanging on the wall.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Just another thing that I'll add...

First, let me say that it is extremely rare that we have a customer purchase Festool products and not agree that they are some of the best tools available.  But, in that rare instance that someone is not completely satisfied with their decision Festool offers a 30-day money back guarantee.  Coupled with their 3 year warranty you can feel confident in your purchase.

Festool's design, attention to details, ergonomics and integration between tools and accessories is phenomenal.  And, as you have probably already noticed the folks on this forum are a great resource to woodworkers of all levels of expertise.

Shane

 

[T. Michael]

Dear Putttn

I too had a Shopsmith (long long ago).  Then when I started buying (used) stand alone tools, I just made the SS into a dedicated drill press.  Tipped it vertical, drilled a hole in the lower bracket and bolted it upright permanently. Nice small footprint.

Festool drills are great, but they do not substitute for a drill press when you really need extra oomph, or are doing a production run of holes that you can jig up on your drill press table.

Just a thought.

Mike

 

[Daviddubya]

I am not experienced with Shopsmith myself, but my son-in-law had one for a few years.  My perspective is the Shopsmith is a PITA to set up and use.  It seemed to me my S-I-L was always breaking down one setup and setting up another on the Shopsmith.  In addition, the design of the table saw on the Shopsmith left a lot to be desired, especially compared to a conventional table saw.  I know I would grow tired of that setup/breakdown/setup process very quickly.  My S-I-L now has individual tools.

As to the Festool capabilities, I am confident you will find Festool's products a whole lot more fun to use.  I have a hard time envisioning my own shop without a table saw, but I am aware of some people that manage just fine with Festool tools and no table saw.  There are some portable job site table saws that could supplement a Festool shop nicely.

One thing for sure - you won't be making a mistake buying Festool.  The quality and versatility is everything you hear.  Yes, it is a big jump ecenomically to commit to Festool, but once that money is spent, you will be happy you made the choice.

Why not consider trying some Festoool products in your own shop?  If you find you can manage nicely without the Shopsmith, then sell it.  Since you bought the Shopsmith used, you can likely recoup your investment and put that money toward tools that you will enjoy using.

 

[Michael Kellough]

A highly skilled craftsman can do excellent work with primitive tools. A beginner needs all the help he can get. You can't find more helpful tools than those from Festool.

 

[putttn]

Well, after moving-adjusting-pondering how much space I wanted to commit to my new "woodworking shop" I made the fatal mistake of visiting the Woodcraft store again.  I spent quite a bit of time with a great salesman who helped me understand what I could accomplish with and without the SS and what I could accomplish with Festool.  After discussing the projects I wanted to complete we decided the SS had functions I might never, or seldom, use.  With that determined I purchased the CT22, FEQ 150 sander and the 1400 router.  I'm going to sell the SS because of the and replace it with the big table and either the TS 55 or TS75 saw.  Will probably pick up the jigsaw at that time or just see how much I need one.  I figure if I need a drill press I can always get another brand unless Festool has something that would do some of those functions. 
Had some sanding I had to get done so set up the sander and vacuum and spent a great Sunday afternoon just enjoying the job and I was so surprised there was absolutely no dust.  I couldn't belivev it so I got my wife to stand and watch to see if I was missing something.  Nope, no dust!  Even the box the vacuum came in was well thought out=grab handles on opposing ends.  What a system and can't believe how close I was to just picking up a orbital sander from HD for $69 but for some reason didn't and ended up at Woodcraft instead.  Don't think I would have enjoyed the afternoon nearly as much and my project ended up perfect.  Guess I'm a new Festool fan for good.

 

[James Metcalf]

Puttn

Welcome and you are off to a good start.

Best Regards
James Metcalf

 

[Corwin]

I don't know, maybe it is just me, but I think that salesman wasn't doing his or her job if you got out of there without an MFT.  Oh no, you probably already figured out that an MFT is best purchased packaged with the TS55!  Might think about getting this before that big TS and then see what you think...   

Corwin

On Edit:  Oh, now I am embarrassed!  I misread your next move as purchasing a big table saw, not the big MFT!  Never mind.

 

[Tinker]

Hi PUTTN, I think you are heading in right direction.  One point from my original post was about space.  If you think about it (or find with experience) to make ANY cut on an MFT, you need only as much space as the bench (whatever type you use) and the wood you are cutting.  The only extra space than that is where you need to put your feet.  With a TS of any kind, you need four or five times the space.  You need space in front of the saw to accomodate infeeding your lumber and the same amout of space for outfeeding.  when it comes to crosscutting, you need the space of the machine pluss a whole lot of area to be cleared to make room for sliding a great long piece that will need all sorts of support which should include plenty of roller suport to help prevent binding of the cut, a real bummer.  When I started my shop back in the 80's, i worked for years with a RAS which, contrary to many opinions, could be very dangerous and take up a lot of extra space.  For me, I never experienced the dangerous kickbacks reported to be so common and i found it to take up far less working space than the TS i bought much later.  Had Festool been available at that time, i might never have bought another stationary tool other than drill press & Bandsaw (Ha! Ha!  we all know that he who ends up with the most toys(tools) WINS!!!)

As far as biking goes, I started out with a couple of Triumph 750cc's. (Tiger & then a TR6) Later moved to a german bike you may never have heard of.  Zundapp, a little 2 cycle 250cc single banger.  I think i had by far, the most fun and craziest (fun type stories to tell) experiences with the Zundapp.  i finally had to get rid of that when my NEW BOSS decided it was either the bike or domestic tranquility. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted,  The domestic tranquility prooved to be the longer term.  How does biking fit in to this thread?  think about it a minute.  For biking, I started big and found most fun with smaller machine. For WW'ing, I started in with larger RAS, moved on to a Craftsman TS.  I have since been introduced to the Festool approach to WW'ing.  Guess which I use the most for sawing lumber, either rough or fine >>>  Fetool AFT 55 on the MFT.  i went from larger toys to smaller toys with absolutely no diminishing of the enjoyment.  And guess what, the domestic tranquility department is much happier.  No more WW evidence tracked thru the house and almost no noise coming from the basement as i tear into my projects.  also, I now get no static from the tranquilty department when i move into living quarters for a project.  I am even allowed to wait til end of day before i have to attack the dust problems on floor and carpet.  Darn little of that can be found.  AND, the CT is so easy to transport from shop to house, and it is so quiet, the DT Officer can even watch her cooking shows on TV.  THAT is a bonus because she is already a great cook.  The benefits of Festool are simply unlimited
Tinker

 

[putttn]

Yes Tinker, I can empathize with what you're saying.  I have a neat-nick who heads up this household.  The neat-nick is much happier now that I"m off the motorcycles.  Went from HD's (16 of em) to BMW to Hyabusa to KLR650 to Goldwing to bicycles and now to woodworking at age 63.  Still going to do the bicycles but the WW is a really popular endeavor at this household.  The SS, even with a pretty small footprint, was a real dilema because of the space it took up and when I started to add up the requirements of a jointer and a planer it became even more intrusive.  The Festool system really started to make sense once I saw how the system would work and that everything could be folded up neatly and not become a point of contention with the neat-nick.  Once the NN saw how the sanding endeavor took place (right by the backdoor to the house in the garage) she was encouraging me to continue on with my purchases of Festool.  Once I explained that I didn't have to purchase a jointer and the MFT could be folded up neatly or, if not, not take up much room, I found a big smile and much enthusiasm from the NN.  Then, I showed her the Systainer and how neatly all that could be stacked and stored.  Even more enthusiasm!  So here I am, ready to sell the SS and start looking at what to purchase next and the NN is all for it.  Especially once she saw the sanding results.
The salesman did tell me I wouldn't need a jointer because the TS would be able to accomplish what the jointer would.  He did say I'd need a planer once I started doing more cabinet type of work. 

 

[Tinker]

Be very careful from this point on.  Does your NN sew. Mine does.  That has presented both a problem and an out.  All of those toys in the cellar inspired a couple of 2 & 5 thou sewing machines.  Ouch!  Of course, on second thought, it made it much easier for me to buy my own cadilac toys such as Festool.  We don't need snow storms around here to keep the snowballs growing :-\ ;D  Oh well, I'm 76 and have not dipped into SS yet. (still working to support both our habits)  The Festool toy store is still a dangerous place to go.
Tinker

 

[Dave Ronyak]

If I ever get my home PC and internet service restored and learn how to attach photos, I could supply some examples of what can be made with a Shopsmith and some Craftsman and hand tools.  Suffice it to say that it more than paid for itself many times over, and gave me a lot of fun, too.  Although I am now a Festool junkie, I am keeping my Shopsmith for its functions as a 1)  lathe (Is there any substitute in the Festool system today?), 2) drill press and horizontal boring machine - the rack and pinion, tiltable table and fence are very handy, as is the variable speed, and 3) a sanding center - you can concurrently setup a 6X48 belt, a 12" disk and a drum sander.  I find that great for dealing with small pieces.  I don't find changeover takes much time, and most of the tooling accessories can be stored in a shopmade rack under the machine or on a wall rack.  And you can run the SS 11" bandsaw off a SS if you want to, and hang it up when you are done.  Given these capabilities, I think the SS nicely complements what is best done using Festool products.  Of course, if you don't have the 2' X 6' footprint space required to store the SS, by all means get rid of it so you can store your Festool products.

Dave R.

 

[LaserGecko]

There is absolutely no comparison in ease of use and accuracy between a ShopSmith and a Festool Saw and Guide Rail when cutting large sheet goods.

Seriously. It's like comparing a Ford Pinto and Ferrari. I used to use a ShopSmith to cut melamine and make dados for shelves. Tremendous PITA.

ShopSmith: Jack of All Trades, Master of None.