Sigma Power Select II 1200 ceramic stone.

[Lemwise]

Recently I switched over to the Veritas PM-V11 blades for my planes and I love this steel. It's tough as nails but the downside to this it that my Coticule stones really struggle to put an edge on this steel, even when I raise a slurry with my small Coticule rubbing stone. I've been doing some research and it seems I need a ceramic stone to effectively and quickly sharpen PM-V11. The Sigma Power Select II 1200 stone gets high marks on speed and dishing resistance. Supposedly this stone was designed specifically for high alloy and powder metal. Does anyone here have any experience with ceramic stones and the Sigma in particular?

 

[live4ever]

Yes they work great with the PMV11. 

I use both the IIs that are available from Lee Valley as well as the original Power available from Stu at toolsfromjapan.com.  Both work great with PMV11.  The IIs wear faster. 

The 1000-6000-13000 set that Stu sells is a pretty good deal depending on how the exchange rate is doing.

 

[Lemwise]

From what I understand the Select II 1200 was developed to be more wear resistant than the Select II 1000?

And what about the Bester 1200, do you know anything about that stone? It's also highly rated.

 

[live4ever]

From what I understand the Select II 1200 was developed to be more wear resistant than the Select II 1000?

And what about the Bester 1200, do you know anything about that stone? It's also highly rated.

Honestly, I have no idea.  I got turned on to the Sigma stones early in my hand tool career and they solved all my sharpening problems.  So never tried or looked into Besters.  I don't know about the wear resistance between the II 1200 and 1000...just know that my Select II wears faster than my Selects (but also cuts faster).  For me it's splitting hairs though.  I've been exceedingly happy with all my Sigma stones, but then maybe I am not that discerning. 

I would definitely get in touch with Stu if you can...he knows a tremendous amount about the nitty gritty of all of these stones.  What I can tell you from personal experience is I am quite happy with either the Select IIs or the regular Power Selects with my PM-V11 blades. 

 

[Lemwise]

just know that my Select II wears faster than my Selects (but also cuts faster).

For the price of a Sigma stone it doesn't really matter to me if it wears a bit faster. It's not like it's a high priced natural. But out of curiosity, how long does the select II last you with regular sharpening of your chisels and plane blades?

 

[live4ever]

just know that my Select II wears faster than my Selects (but also cuts faster).

For the price of a Sigma stone it doesn't really matter to me if it wears a bit faster. It's not like it's a high priced natural. But out of curiosity, how long does the select II last you with regular sharpening of your chisels and plane blades?

Well I'm not a very regular or skilled hand tool user (do the bulk of the work with electrons), so I've not even come close to making a noticeable decrease in thickness of the stone.  I'd say maybe I've used 10% of it in the few years I've had it.  I suppose I could take out the calipers and measure.  I probably only take it out for a bigger sharpening session every few months and it's usually a massive session (for me) with 6-8 plane irons (A2 and PM-V11) and 5-8 chisels (Narex), maybe a scraper or two.  I touch up a little more frequently on a 6000 or 13000 Power I.  What is noticeable about the wear on the II is how much sooner I have to flatten it - it dishes a little quicker and more severely than the roughly equivalent grit Power I.  Again, really not a big deal for my casual use.  It will be many years before I have to replace any of these.

 

[Cheese]

Interesting stuff...how would you compare the properties of a ceramic stone to a traditional natural whet stone or a waterstone?

And where do the diamond sharpening stones fit in?

 

[Lemwise]

Natural stones have one property (scientifically proven) that synthetic stones do not as far as I know, they actually harden the steel further.

Edit: I made a decision and ordered the Sigma Select II 1200 because everyone agrees it's faster than the Bester 1200.

 

[derekcohen]

Recently I switched over to the Veritas PM-V11 blades for my planes and I love this steel. It's tough as nails but the downside to this it that my Coticule stones really struggle to put an edge on this steel, even when I raise a slurry with my small Coticule rubbing stone. I've been doing some research and it seems I need a ceramic stone to effectively and quickly sharpen PM-V11. The Sigma Power Select II 1200 stone gets high marks on speed and dishing resistance. Supposedly this stone was designed specifically for high alloy and powder metal. Does anyone here have any experience with ceramic stones and the Sigma in particular?

I have both the Sigma 1200 Power Select II and the Shapton Pro 1000. The Shapton is the better stone in terms of speed. It works on PM-V11, M2 and M4 steels, not to ignore O1 and A2.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Lemwise]

I already ordered the Sigma 1200. It doesn't surprise me the Shapton is faster because it's a coarser stone.

 

[derekcohen]

You'll be happy with the Sigma. It is a good stone. I was given one, and already had the Shapton. I used the Sigma for a few months before trying the Shapton again. Without the Shapton to compare directly, the Sigma would have been very satisfactory.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Lemwise]

So I got the stone today and I wasn't really sure what to expect in terms of speed. All I can say is wow! This is on a whole other level of speed compared to any other stone I've ever used. It blows my Coticules out of the water. I have a soft Coticule that I thought was very fast but the Sigma is at least twice as fast. It sharpens PM-V11 extremely well and leaves a fine enough edge for my daily woodworking needs. I also have a set of Stanley Sweetheart 750 series chisels (the new ones) and those get sharp even faster. Just a few strokes and I'm good to go again. I also noticed that raising a slurry with my small Coticule rubbing stone  and using that for the final strokes leaves an even better edge. All in all I'm very happy with the stone.

Edit: So I'm thinking about getting a higher grit stone to complement the Sigma because the edge can use some further refinement. Any thoughts about the Shapton Pro 5000?

 

[derekcohen]

So I'm thinking about getting a higher grit stone to complement the Sigma because the edge can use some further refinement. Any thoughts about the Shapton Pro 5000?

I think that the Shapton 5000 is a dog. Far better is the Sigma 6000. Add the Sigma 13000 to this, and you have a balanced and excellent system.

Edit: are you really only using a 1200 grit stone for your blades?! At the least, get the Sigma 6000 and then strop with green compound on planed hardwood or MDF.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[live4ever]

Yup, 1000-6000-13000 on the Sigmas will give you an amazing edge.  I don't see why you'd stop at 1000 either...that's a fairly dull blade, though it all depends on what you're trying to do with it I suppose.

PS.  Derek, I didn't know you were a FOG kinda guy...

 

[derekcohen]

PS.  Derek ...

I've been a member here several years. While it gets very little use, my first Festool - which I still have - is a 20 year old ROS badged "Festo"!  [big grin] I have a CT26 vac, the small C12 drill, and recently purchased the smaller Domino. That one is to help with a kitchen rebuild - I really do not want to mortice-and-tenon 25 Maple doors!

While I prefer handtools, I mainly use them after roughing out with machines. Good tools make all this a more enjoyable process. That does not mean expensive, but Festool make good tools, and some of my machines are similar, such as a Hammer A3-31 combo and the 4400 bandsaw. Of course, then a common Stanley #3 and a few bench chisels outperforms all of these! Just horses for courses. [big grin]

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Lemwise]

I didn't think it was actually possible but today I sharpened a HSS router bit on the 1200 followed by a couple of passes on the 6000 It's as good as new [big grin]