Snowblower Project

[Mike Goetzke]

My drive and sidewalks are in-between needing a single or two-stage snowblower. Many years ago I started with a Toro single stage then about 10 years later sold it and got a 2-stage. After couple years the 2-stage seemed to big so sold it and got a top of line Toro single stage again. It worked great except for the large piles the snow plow leaves at the end of the driveway. Next two seasons ago I see a new 2-stage in the Lowe's clearance for 1/2 price and couldn't resist (guy said it had a bad tire and had to be replaced and couldn't be sold as new - he showed me the repair papers). I miss being able to easily get a snowblower in the backyard for the sidewalks and patio so I have had the itch to get a used single stage. I'm retired and sort of looking for an inexpensive one that may need work. Well I found one yesterday before the snowblower flip guys did. It's a Toro 621 QZE 4-stroke. Starts right up but smokes a bit and surges/hunts with the choke removed. I'm 98% sure it's the carb running rich because there is the smell of fuel in the oil too. From what I have read this is not uncommon.

Toro made it difficult to remove/replace the carb (many panels to remove, fuel tank, electric start...) but I have time to tinker. Here is my plan but wondering others that may have had Toro carb issues can shed some experience:

You can get to the carb float cup without removing anything. I was thinking of first removing the float cup so I could get at the main jet and emulsion tube and clean them well. I saw in a YT video that you can also get at the idle screw and orifice to clean them too. Then I would flush the fuel tank and replace the engine oil. If this didn't work I would continue below.

If I end up needing to remove the carb I see three options:
1) thoroughly clean the carb (I have a sonic cleaner I use for my LP's that I saw a few people use to clean these small carbs with Simple Green & water).
2) purchase a $20-$25 carb on the internet.
3) purchase a Toro carb $54.

This is where I need help deciding. I could do (1) but not sure all the gaskets/seals could be reused. Plus there may be a chance it still needs a new carb. I did see a YT guy that claims he has repaired 100's of snowblowers and this cleaning works 95% of the time. On the other hand if I take it all apart the other side of my brain says to get the new Toro replacement. Guess I could try (1) and take it apart again for a new replacement if needed - second time always goes quicker.

Thanks - Mike

 

[Cheese]

I can't help you on your project but I agree that it sounds like a carb problem and I can also say that if you clean up the carburetor issues, that model is a workhorse and it should run smoothly and will start on the first pull as long as you use the choke and "tickle" the carb. I purchased basically the same model back in 2014 and only replaced the snow paddles in 2021 after running over a bunch of loose class 5 rock.
I've not done anything else to the Toro for the almost 12 years I've owned it.

If used on a patio, you may want to look at fabricating a pair of thin skis to ride over the patio pavers/block edges. I need to fabricate a set to use on New York bluestone pavers as the front edge of the blower housing catches on the exposed edge of the bluestone pavers.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I can't help you on your project but I agree that it sounds like a carb problem and I can also say that if you clean up the carburetor issues, that model is a workhorse and it should run smoothly and will start on the first pull as long as you use the choke and "tickle" the carb. I purchased basically the same model back in 2014 and only replaced the snow paddles in 2021 after running over a bunch of loose class 5 rock.
I've not done anything else to the Toro for the almost 12 years I've owned it.

If used on a patio, you may want to look at fabricating a pair of thin skis to ride over the patio pavers/block edges. I need to fabricate a set to use on New York bluestone pavers as the front edge of the blower housing catches on the exposed edge of the bluestone pavers.

That 721 QZR brings back bad memories - it's the one I sold couple years ago. In hindsight I should have kept it with my new 2-stage. My patio is concrete but I do have a section of pavers on the sidewalk. I bought the ARMORskids for my 2-stage because of uneven sidewalks and they are fantastic but they cost like $50! I do have a welder (but I'm not very experienced) so maybe I could duplicate them for the Toro.

More I think about it this was supposed to be an inexpensive machine for small areas so think I will first try to ultrasonic clean the carb that is in the machine. (can't believe it but OEM scraper bar and paddles are over $60 now days)

 

[leakyroof]

Carb issues on small engines are so common these days due to the fuel make up, and not everyone draining old fuel at end of season or keeping up with basic engine maintenance.

I bet you score a win with careful cleaning. I recommend new seals and gaskets for piece of mind and preventing new issues like a torn o-ring or cracked gasket after being reused to save money.

 

[Cheese]

On the fuel front...I only use ethanol-free gas in my gas powered tools after I learned the hard way on a couple of Stihl items In both cases the entire carbs needed to be replaced and I was lucky that I caught it early.

I've yet to find commercially available skis for the Toro single stage units. That's the reason I suggested that you may need to fabricate them.

Ethanol Problems for Engines: What You Need to Know

Discover the pros and cons of ethanol fuel blends in this informative article. Learn how ethanol affects emissions, octane levels, and fuel quality.

www.bellperformance.com

 

[Packard]

On the fuel front...I only use ethanol-free gas in my gas powered tools after I learned the hard way on a couple of Stihl items In both cases the entire carbs needed to be replaced and I was lucky that I caught it early.

I've yet to find commercially available skis for the Toro single stage units. That's the reason I suggested that you may need to fabricate them.

Ethanol Problems for Engines: What You Need to Know

Discover the pros and cons of ethanol fuel blends in this informative article. Learn how ethanol affects emissions, octane levels, and fuel quality.

www.bellperformance.com

I would note that 10% ethanol gas is all that is available where I live in the winter. The alcohol will apparently absorb some moisture from the air and the engines will run rough. I only store the ethanol gas for 6 weeks. At that point, I pour the balance of the can into my car’s tank (usually about 1 to 1-1/2 gallons) and replace the gas for the snow blower.

As a sidebar:

I woke up this morning to about 1-1/2” of light snow and 18 F temps. My Toro snow blower is not well suited to those small amounts of snow.

Instead, I used my leaf blower to clear the snow. It won’t work with heavy, wet snow but works like charm on the light fresh stuff. Clears it right down to the blacktop. In the past I would use a shovel. The leaf blower does a better job of getting down to the pavement, so no salting was required. Faster and easier too.

 

[peter halle]

If you choose to clean your carb and want to go the Simple Green route - think about using the Simple Green Pro HD - designed for cleaning metals. Can get at the orange store. I used it for cleaning my Quadrajet carb and it was great.

For those who can't get ethanol free gas for small engines, my favorite Youtube small engine mechanic is Chickanic and she swears by Ethanol Shield even going thru the efforts of long term tests. Amazon is your friend.



Peter

 

[Mike Goetzke]

If you choose to clean your carb and want to go the Simple Green route - think about using the Simple Green Pro HD - designed for cleaning metals. Can get at the orange store. I used it for cleaning my Quadrajet carb and it was great.

For those who can't get ethanol free gas for small engines, my favorite Youtube small engine mechanic is Chickanic and she swears by Ethanol Shield even going thru the efforts of long term tests. Amazon is your friend.



Peter

Yeah I saw the need to use the Pro HD. I have also seen a few use Pinesol, Dawn, and even a few gasolene. Many put water in the ultrasonic machine and put the parts in a jar or sealed baggie with the solution. I'm in no super rush so will research a little further.

 

[cdconey]

You may want to try this- it's worked wonders on my Toro lawn mower - completely remove all the fuel with a transfer pump and use new fuel with this additive.

My local orange store stopped selling it .

 

[Cheese]

As a side note...the Pro HD is also recommended for cleaning the pitch from circular saw blades while the normal green stuff is not because it may attack the cermet.

 

[peter halle]

and the Simple Green HD is to be diluted 5:1 I believe.
Peter

 

[leakyroof]

If you choose to clean your carb and want to go the Simple Green route - think about using the Simple Green Pro HD - designed for cleaning metals. Can get at the orange store. I used it for cleaning my Quadrajet carb and it was great.

For those who can't get ethanol free gas for small engines, my favorite Youtube small engine mechanic is Chickanic and she swears by Ethanol Shield even going thru the efforts of long term tests. Amazon is your friend.



Peter

She's a riot, I've seen a few of her videos...Very knowledgeable too.

 

[Vondawg]

As a side note...the Pro HD is also recommended for cleaning the pitch from circular saw blades while the normal green stuff is not because it may attack the cermet.

Cermet! …ha.! I like to run my chain saws “full steam ahead, man the torpedos” ..titanium , carbide/nitride nuclear waste form be damned !

 

[Mike Goetzke]

@Cheese can you totally open the choke when your PowerClear warms up?

I changed the oil and removed the fuel. The fuel had some white snot in it - probably water. Without much effort I removed the main jet and it looked pristine as well as the float cup. Flushed the tank with some fresh fuel and drained it. I put more gas in and it's running much better. Only smokes at start. When it's warmed I can open the choke 1/2 to 3/4 before it starts to surge/hunt (before it would only run with full choke). I'm thinking of trying some of that Ethanol Shield @cdconey referenced and see if it cleans it up even better before removing the carb.

(Edit - just thinking with that water goop in the tank I probably need to c/o the fuel filter.)

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Packard]

@Cheese can you totally open the choke when your PowerClear warms up?

I changed the oil and removed the fuel. The fuel had some white snot in it - probably water. Without much effort I removed the main jet and it looked pristine as well as the float cup. Flushed the tank with some fresh fuel and drained it. I put more gas in and it's running much better. Only smokes at start. When it's warmed I can open the choke 1/2 to 3/4 before it starts to surge/hunt (before it would only run with full choke). I'm thinking of trying some of that Ethanol Shield @cdconey referenced and see if it cleans it up even better before removing the carb.

Thanks for all the help.

The surge/ hunt was what I experienced with the “old” gas (more than 6 weeks old) that had absorbed moisture from the air. A switch to fresh gas solved that problem. But that only applies to ethanol blend gas.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for all the help.

Think I got it! I was able to remove the emulsion tube and the tiny holes on the top were plugged, I cleaned them out, put it back together, and after warming up I can run it at full open choke.

Still think when the weather gets warm I'll remove the carb and clean it in my ultrasonic cleaner. I'm having a hard time finding seals/gaskets at a reasonable price. It's almost the same price as a highly rated new non-Toro replacement carb! Years past I could just go to a repair shop but they seem to have disappeared.

 

[Cheese]

@Cheese can you totally open the choke when your PowerClear warms up?

(Edit - just thinking with that water goop in the tank I probably need to c/o the fuel filter.)

Thanks for all the help.

Yes...the choke only needs to be on for 10-15 seconds...just enough to richen the mixture to start. After 10-15 seconds of running, it starts to load up pretty severely and that makes sense. In the old days the choke had to be on long enough for the carb to start to heat up but with the new carbs and their multiple circuits, the magic just happens all by itself.

That white snot is what traveled throughout the entire carb on a couple of Stihl tools. It corroded everything and the carb couldn't be saved. A good call to replace the fuel filter and flush any lines to remove the stuff entirely and then use ethanol-free gas.

 

[leakyroof]

Thanks for all the help.

Think I got it! I was able to remove the emulsion tube and the tiny holes on the top were plugged, I cleaned them out, put it back together, and after warming up I can run it at full open choke.

Still think when the weather gets warm I'll remove the carb and clean it in my ultrasonic cleaner. I'm having a hard time finding seals/gaskets at a reasonable price. It's almost the same price as a highly rated new non-Toro replacement carb! Years past I could just go to a repair shop but they seem to have disappeared.

I've had decent luck with Jack's Small engine parts for ordering On-Line- I think they're East Coast based. And yes, small engine repair and dealers are a dying breed it seems.