So just how good is Kapex dust collection?

[FestitaMakool]

I’m a little late here too.. but a few thoughts and experiences:

Dust collection is the best I’ve had, (3 previous saws, but not the big DeWalt)
- I can work in my living room with a vac connected, and the leftovers are concentrated enough to be neglectable.

The cart with wings: A revelation on even ground - cannot praise it enough compared to the “industry standard” with horizontal telescopic supports. I bought extra roller supports for my DeWalt and Bosch stands, working with lengths up to 5,8 meters - it was still in-out and adjusting all day long - frustrating! The wings are a revelation in that matter.

Cart with wings on uneven ground - bring the “industry standard” one. Trying to level the cart and wings can take all the time you have between coffee breaks - No-no! [big grin]
The cart makes it move around and store like no other - perfect!

Buy as a set - usually a lot to save in comparison to separate purchase.

And yes: I learned to put my index finger on the side of the saw, like you might? do on a small drill or manual saw - it moves your hand upwards in a better position to the two buttons and gives a better grip and control. (All my former saws had upright grip, but with the KS120 it needed “adjusting”) Now I see that I move lightly and more gentle and working with the saw.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I watched a video last night about the UG cart with the extensions. What a brilliantly-designed solution. Crazy-expensive, but a ‘must-have’ I think.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I watched a video last night about the UG cart with the extensions. What a brilliantly-designed solution. Crazy-expensive, but a ‘must-have’ I think.

When I first started using the SawHelper (predecessor to the Kapex UG setup) on a Makita miter saw it was a revelation for me. This was back when I was mostly working on-site, installing millwork. Once I had the stops calibrated to my measuring device, I could measure the necessary length, then put my measuring device away, set the stop, make the cut, then move on to the next operation.

That is to say:
-- Measure space
-- Set stop
-- Make cut

As opposed to the "old" method of:
-- Measure space
-- Lay tape on board
-- Mark board with pencil (sharpen pencil or advance lead if necessary)
-- Line up blade (or laser, or shadow line) with mark
-- Make cut

It may seem like a small thing, but I found that it really streamlined my workflow. Now that I'm mostly working in the Shop, I have the same work flow with my KF700, where I know the fence stops are calibrated to my Hultafors Talmeter tape measure. Measure -- Set stop -- Make cut.

I agree with FestitaMakool in term of rough terrain, if you find yourself setting up in a yard you may want to retain your Dewalt stand and modify it so you can clamp your Kapex to it if/when needed. That being said, I found that by the time I was setting up a bench top crosscutting saw, there was usually a paved or finished/flat surface on which to set up.....

 

[Hotwheels]

Do you still use your SawHelper?  I bought one years ago for some outdoor projects and it worked well.  Since I have moved and have an indoor dedicated shop I continue to use although I keep thinking I should replace it with some variation of a miter saw station, but I can't quite convince myself to do that.  So, just curious if you still find it useful for in-shop projects.

 

[Cheese]

That is to say:
-- Measure space
-- Set stop
-- Make cut

    VS

As opposed to the "old" method of:
-- Measure space
-- Lay tape on board
-- Mark board with pencil (sharpen pencil or advance lead if necessary)
-- Line up blade (or laser, or shadow line) with mark
-- Make cut

Now that's an eye opener Tom... [thumbs up] ...never thought about that as I'm still using the "old" method.  [doh]

The "old" method is fraught with potential errors.

And the weird thing is when I machine metal, I always work off of a hard stop, I just never thought about it for wood trim.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Do you still use your SawHelper?  I bought one years ago for some outdoor projects and it worked well.  Since I have moved and have an indoor dedicated shop I continue to use although I keep thinking I should replace it with some variation of a miter saw station, but I can't quite convince myself to do that.  So, just curious if you still find it useful for in-shop projects.

Hi John,

Unfortunately, I sold my SawHelper years ago, and desperately wish I had kept it. If I still had it, I'm sure I'd be using it for something. Unfortunately, the company went out of business in 2008. On the bright side, I know of a handful of "handy homeowner" customers with SawHelper setups tucked away in the corner of a garage or basement, I need to come up with a diplomatic way of communicating "When the time comes, I'd be happy to buy that from you...."

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

That is to say:
-- Measure space
-- Set stop
-- Make cut

    VS

As opposed to the "old" method of:
-- Measure space
-- Lay tape on board
-- Mark board with pencil (sharpen pencil or advance lead if necessary)
-- Line up blade (or laser, or shadow line) with mark
-- Make cut

Now that's an eye opener Tom... [thumbs up] ...never thought about that as I'm still using the "old" method.  [doh]

The "old" method is fraught with potential errors.

And the weird thing is when I machine metal, I always work off of a hard stop, I just never thought about it for wood trim.

Hi Cheese,

Yeah, I started using calibrated flip stops when I got my SawHelper, which carried on with my Kapex, then my Erika 70, and now with my KF-700. Particularly with the KF700, I have the overhead guard so there's really no way to line up a cut with the blade, as the hood/blade guard assembly completely encloses the blade and is over 2' long. That being said, once the stops are calibrated to the measuring device, I can't remember the last time I had a cut that wasn't the length I wanted.....

 

[Coen]

[...]
[member=8955]Coen[/member] I appreciate your input on this. Although I can't stand 12" bladed miter saws, I can't see the 10" Makita being significantly different from the 12". Since it's already my battery platform of choice, the only real question seems to be corded or cordless. The claims of battery life along the lines of 190 cuts in 2 x 12s, over 300 in 2 x 4, are a lot more than I would need to do. Many times, I would do a lot more cuts in a day, but not in material like that. Plus, I already have several 5ah batteries.
I just don't know about the secondary trigger? Does the Makita have that?

Huh, I mistook you for the topic starter at first.
Well, that's with most brands; the 305mm monsters are just upsized from their 254 versions, while the 254 is an upsized 216.

On the trigger; I think they changed something on that front a while ago. Don't remember exactly anymore.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

So I picked up the Kapex this morning and put it straight to work. First impressions out of the box, weren’t great – it was almost two degrees out of alignment vertically, and not much better horizontally. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a saw costing almost double the price of a 780 to be at least close to having a decent factory setup. But that’s an irritation, fixed using a quick 4-cut alignment. There are various other minor bits which aren’t quite right – but that will all be part of getting it dialled-in and comfortable with it.

Dust collection isn’t perfect (nor did I expect it to be – it’s a mitre saw with an exposed blade spinning in open air after all) – but it’s an order of magnitude better than what I’ve been used to – at least twice as good or maybe even three times better. Maybe even more than that - but until I get it out onto a real-world kitchen installation or a similar job in a customer’s home, I won’t really be able to gauge it completely accurately. But straight out of the blocks – its ability to deal with MDF dust is very, very impressive – and that’s important to me since so many off-the-shelf trim products are made of this noxious stuff.

A few quick initial observations based on the first couple of hours of use;

1 - The bevel adjustment is a thing of beauty.
2 – The pull-out protractor is going to be very useful, especially on jobs like the one mentioned in the OP. I can’t remember how many hundreds of times I was back and forth to wall corners with my trusty little Starrett.
3 – I do find the handle awkward and somewhat counterintuitive - but I fully accept that comes directly as a result of the muscle memory instilled by using a different handle design for three-decades-plus. I’ll get used to it, along with all the other things which are different to my norm.
3 – The UG cart + extension set is borderline genius, and will be mandatory for the site work I do, along with shop work. The very fact that the saw’s permanently fixed to this gadget and can be rolled around is golden, because the 780 weighs almost as much as my van and is a real crippler to carry around.
4 – This might be a strange analogy - but 780’s a 225-pound football player who also has the ability to produce delicate, accurate touches when needed. The Kapex, by comparison, is like a ballerina. It feels like a tightly-toleranced precision tool, and I’m sure the results I obtain will be flawless once I’m used to how it all works and how to get the absolute best out of it.

So will I be taking it back for a refund? No, I won’t. It will be incorporated into my weapons arsenal on exactly the same basis as my routers – a precision half-inch one (OF2200) for heavy tasks, a precision medium-sized one (Makita RP1100) for tasks appropriate to that size of machine, and a little one (Makita DRT50 cordless) for delicate moulding and trim work. I’ll be keeping the 780 as it excels at cutting large-section material (green oak beams etc.) and it’s perfectly happy working outdoors in horror conditions doing rough-cut work on wet decking, fencing and framing - basically, those jobs I wouldn't want to expose a brand-new megabucks saw to. My beautifully-engineered little 190mm Makita LS0714 is perfect for small-scale trim jobs and can be carried in one hand. The Kapex will become my standard daily driver for everything in between. I just became that 3 x mitre saw guy.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed. I’m looking forward to exploring its possibilities.

 

[squall_line]

Kevin, your post makes me extremely happy.

Not that I have a dog in the fight nor Festool stock or anything, but your description and comparisons and the fact that you have rather exacting standards make me happy to see the saw will work out for you.

I don't think I'd have a miter saw if I didn't have the UG stand, or if I had one, I wouldn't use it as much.  It makes storage and transport so much easier to manage when not in a permanent location.

 

[ChuckM]

So I picked up the Kapex this morning and put it straight to work. First impressions out of the box, weren’t great – it was almost two degrees out of alignment vertically, and not much better horizontally. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a saw costing almost double the price of a 780 to be at least close to having a decent factory setup. But that’s an irritation, fixed using a quick 4-cut alignment. There are various other minor bits which aren’t quite right – but that will all be part of getting it dialled-in and comfortable with it.
Snip.

That's more than an irritation. That's poor factory and quality management because we've seen similar comments or complaints from new owners here and elsewhere. Have you checked if the table and fence are flat/straight across?

I wouldn't buy a Kapex online...I got mine from a local dealership (20 mins away), knowing that I could easily exchange/return it if it turned out to be a lemon.

 

[Kevin D.]

Have had my Kapex for at least a dozen years.  I also have the Bosch 10in Axial and an old Sears Craftsman chopper that actually still gets used once in a while.

The Kapex with the 36mm hose raises it's dust collection from the 70-80% level to high 90's.  Makes a huge diff.

I tried years ago to outfit my Bosch with the Kapex' chute which I've seen others do.  Wasn't any big improvement IMO.  Reason being is because of the design of the Kapex and where the chute affixes to which the body of the blade shroud.  No other saw I know makes this possible.  That's the Kapex diff right there.  The chute is always right near to where all the stuff gets spewed out.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=4938]chuck[/member] S That was literally the first thing I checked, using a 1-metre calibrated heavy stainless steel straightedge. It's dead flat and dead straight. The fence is also perfectly square to the sawbed. And FWIW, this wasn't bought online, but from a bricks-and mortar store 20 miles from home.

 

[jujigatame]

Have had my Kapex for at least a dozen years.  I also have the Bosch 10in Axial and an old Sears Craftsman chopper that actually still gets used once in a while.

The Kapex with the 36mm hose raises it's dust collection from the 70-80% level to high 90's.  Makes a huge diff.

I tried years ago to outfit my Bosch with the Kapex' chute which I've seen others do.  Wasn't any big improvement IMO.  Reason being is because of the design of the Kapex and where the chute affixes to which the body of the blade shroud.  No other saw I know makes this possible.  That's the Kapex diff right there.  The chute is always right near to where all the stuff gets spewed out.

Well said.

I think my answer would be that the Kapex dust collection is not perfect, but still a lot better than any other miter saw out there.

 

[ChuckM]

[member=4938]chuck[/member] S That was literally the first thing I checked, using a 1-metre calibrated heavy stainless steel straightedge. It's dead flat and dead straight. The fence is also perfectly square to the sawbed. And FWIW, this wasn't bought online, but from a bricks-and mortar store 20 miles from home.

Good to know. Those are some of the hard-to-fix or even un-fixable issues reported in some threads. My EB was dead-on in everything except the miter scale (not the bevel) -- both 90* and miters were off -- which I fixed following Gary's video instructions.

 

[Willy Eckerslike]

One of the UG wings for my KS60 was 1mm out Kev.  Easy to recalibrate.
If you don't have your long spirit level with you when adjusting the height of the left and right hand wings, pop out one of the wing extensions and use that.  You need to keep tabs on the sliding captive nut whilst it's undone but you get used to that.  All of this assumes that the UG stands are similar in their operation.

My gut feeling about the hand position is that you'll come to like it when you're doing a lot of flat bevel cuts as your hand is always central to the plane of the cut.  It's also just as easy to use with either hand.

I'm sure you'll enjoy using it.