Teak cockpit grate with the Domino 500

[Renovatedspaces]

[attachthumb=2]I need some advice. First off, I'm loving Festool! I bought my first one(domino) two months ago. I now own the Kapex, Carvex 420 with accessories,TS75 + two rails and 4 blades, MFK700 and the CT26 with installers cleanup kit.  I'm afraid to look at my bank statement!! 

So, I am rebuilding a Teak cockpit grate for a friend/client. It was originally built in 1985 and is well worn and been repaired improperly a couple times. The grate is 3/4" x 3/4" Teak. It was originally joined to the frame pieces with dowels. I would like to use dominos for the new build. I have the 4mm cutter and dominoes. What would you recommend as a minimum width stock for this application. I want to keep it as close to original width(3/4) as possible.  This grate is bearing weight of whoever is at the helm! What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 

[roblg3]

hmmm  the generally accepted ratio of mortise and tenon joinery is a mortise no more than 1/3 the thickness of the stock.  For 3/4 it's usually a 6mm domino.  BUT, that won't work here, because the width of a 6mm domino clearly breaks that "rule" width wise...maybe someone who knows will chime in.  I would definitely choose the harder Sipo tenons to use in this project.  I'm not sure if a domino is appropriate here.  I think you may be better served to put a cleat around the perimeter to support the joint where the lattice meets the frame.

 

[Renovatedspaces]

I talked to the client last night. I can go up to 1" wide for the grate. If I use a 5mm domino I'll have a hair over 1/8" remaining on either side of the tenon. A 6mm will leave 1/8". Do you think 1/8" is enough?

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I dont think I would use the domino.  I think I would set up a dado on the table saw or 1400 router with the track to make the dados.

 

[Renovatedspaces]

I will be using the table saw for the intersecting dado cuts.  Looking to join the grate strips to the outside frame. Is this not what the domino is for???

 

[tiralie]

Looking to join the grate strips to the outside frame. Is this not what the domino is for???

Maybe, but putting Domino's in the end grain will weaken the grate at that point.
In this case if you can design the grid so you avoid having to domino the end grain it will be much better.

How was the original grate attached to the frame?
Don't these grates sit in a rabbet in a permanently fixed frame?
Tim

 

[Renovatedspaces]

Looking to join the grate strips to the outside frame. Is this not what the domino is for???

Maybe, but putting Domino's in the end grain will weaken the grate at that point.
In this case if you can design the grid so you avoid having to domino the end grain it will be much better.

How was the original grate attached to the frame?
Don't these grates sit in a rabbet in a permanently fixed frame?
Tim

Nice to see someone local on here!! I'm in Acton.

I'm leaning towards cutting a tenon  on the table saw and using the domino to cut the mortises. I'll just have to clean off the corners of the tenons to fit the domino mortises. That would be the strongest option I think. More labour, but probably better for the long run. This thing will be in the elemants all spring summer and fall. It will be left raw as the client likes the added grip as the wood wears. 

 

[roblg3]

if half laps are strong enough for the intersections, why not do the same to join the grid to the frame?  If you can make the grid out of 1" by 1" stock then make 1.5" long tenons 6mm thick if you're choosing the domino.  I've put 2 6mmX40mm dominos in deck boards to join "floating edges with good success.[attachthumb=1]

 

[Renovatedspaces]

if half laps are strong enough for the intersections, why not do the same to join the grid to the frame?  If you can make the grid out of 1" by 1" stock then make 1.5" long tenons 6mm thick if you're choosing the domino.  I've put 2 6mmX40mm dominos in deck boards to join "floating edges with good success.[attachthumb=1]

 

My concern with the domino tenon in the 1" wide board (have to stay 3/4" thick) is how little stock will be remaining left and right of the tenon at the centreline of the mortise.

 

[Jeffonebuck]

Make the frame in the same size as your interior strips.  Notch the frame members also as you set up for the half laps on the interior strips and get more glue area there.  Drill from the outside and install dowels and glue into each tenon and trim off all at once with the tablesaw or tracksaw and then glue and add additional width to rails and stiles

 

[rst]

Get yourself the KM-1 KerfMaker by Bridge City Tool Works, look at the You Tube video by Bridge City.

 

[Renovatedspaces]

Get yourself the KM-1 KerfMaker by Bridge City Tool Works, look at the You Tube video by Bridge City.

I have to be honest. When I first saw your post I thought you were directing me to a dedicated power tool!  I thought hell no! That thing is pretty sweet! Thanks.

 

[Renovatedspaces]

I appreciate all of the suggestions.  I'm planning on doing a couple sample pieces and doing a load test. And I may be purchasing the KM-1, although I will be using a dedicated sled with an indexer for this project.

 

[Renovatedspaces]

Just so you know that KM-1 is in pre-order only and not in stock. They wait until they have enough pre orders then go into production. Who knows when it would actually ship.

I saw that. Thank you for letting me know though. I may  make on out of wood in the meantime.

 

[tiralie]

I appreciate all of the suggestions.  I'm planning on doing a couple sample pieces and doing a load test. And I may be purchasing the KM-1, although I will be using a dedicated sled with an indexer for this project.

In case you have never done half laps before, make sure your blanks have been milled to the same thickness otherwise you will get a lot of spaces where they cross.
I think the KM-1 would be perfect for this project although I am sure a sled and index will be quick and easy. Every time I go to buy one they are not in stock, and when I get an email that they are back in stock I wait too long.
Tim

 

[Renovatedspaces]

I appreciate all of the suggestions.  I'm planning on doing a couple sample pieces and doing a load test. And I may be purchasing the KM-1, although I will be using a dedicated sled with an indexer for this project.

In case you have never done half laps before, make sure your blanks have been milled to the same thickness otherwise you will get a lot of spaces where they cross.
I think the KM-1 would be perfect for this project although I am sure a sled and index will be quick and easy. Every time I go to buy one they are not in stock, and when I get an email that they are back in stock I wait too long.
Tim

I think I'll do the pre pay because I'll procrastinate!!  I'm doing the dado cuts in 12" wide boards and then ripping down. Should save a ton of time. There will be about 540 dado cuts to do. I will not be doing that one at a time with the KM1!!!!!

 

[Renovatedspaces]

I don't think the KM-1 will help you much when doing many dado cuts at regular intervals. Essentially you'll be cutting the dados just like box joints, so having a crosscut sled for your table saw with a block mounted to slip the previous dado cut onto to space for the next cut is the simplest way for a production run and to maintain exact dado spacing.

I agree. The sled is the way to go. Wide boards, do the dados and then rip to width.

 

[NorfolkNgood]

Hi
When you glue all those half laps together make sure you de-grease the teak with acetone and use a good epoxy like West system ! [smile]

 

[Renovatedspaces]

Hi
When you glue all those half laps together make sure you de-grease the teak with acetone and use a good epoxy like West system ! [smile]

Already have the "Flex" epoxy! Thanks.

 

[MaineShop]

May be a bit late too chime in as you may have already started. When I used to work in a boat yard we would end up making small grates like this all the time. Easiest way by far is a benchtop mortiser. Use the benchtop mortiser to do the the edge pieces, make a jig for spacing and do all four side pieces, leave em long and rip the taper after. I used to do the strips on the table saw with a dado blade and a sled. I would usually do it with several wide pieces first dadoing out the grooves, then rips those boards into the strips. After you trim your strips to length I would make the tennons as beefy as I could right on the table saw, I would usually get the shoulders down to about an 1/8" that way If they were 1" strips I could us a 3/4" mortise chisel.

If you take your time with set up you get very little waste and very little glue is required. The little glue is nice since sometimes such as on swim platforms they may want the teak to weather and the epoxy oozing out of the seams can kinda show if they leave the wood raw.

Not sure if that helps, but it use to work for me. I would avoid dominos on 1" strips that are structural. Lap joint is better, tennon would be the best. It is your project and I am sure you will find what works for you.

Adam