The perfect Jigsaw...

[BigfootBuilder]

...does not seem to exist.

I've just looked through seemingly every brand, mostly focused on the cordless models. The way that I see things, which is not necessarily the way that anyone else may see things, these are the attributes that I would want rolled into one, and I'd pay for it too. In order of rough hierarchy:

-Cordless. A no brainer nowadays I think. Dragging a cord behind a jigsaw will often result in something catching at some point, and messing up your cut. It's the way so many things are going. There are even cordless table saws now so this one certainly isn't asking much.

-Variable speed trigger. Speaking to the d-handles. Surprisingly, not a feature across the jigsaw board. (I could add in here the Carvex's frail and uncomfortable [to me utterly unusable] d-handle design).

-Reachable on/off button. This is a direct shot at the Carvex barrel grip. I still have mine (until I can find something better) and cannot for the life of me figure out a comfortable way to access the on/off buttons, ESPECIALLY when I need to stop a cut for accuracy in the middle of a piece.

-Toolless blade change. Surprisingly, there are still some manufacturers (with a kind of teal blue tint) who require a hex key to change the blade. And I don't think that relying on a complicated set of circuits to ineffectively bring the blade up to the top after every cut is acceptable.

-Toolless angle adjustment. Again still not a standard (kind of a darker blue green). The only thing I want to need a hex key for with a jigsaw is to take the thing apart if need be to replace a trigger or something, and even then we should be talking torx.

-Dust blower. The only thing more cumbersome than dragging a cord is dragging a 27mm ribbed hose behind a jigsaw. Blowing > sucking in this application IMHO.

-Positive stops for angles. I mean real, tactile, no mistaking it and man you can just FEEL it positive stops. No guessing. No ambiguity. And precision. I get that Festool has chosen to offer separate feet for the reason of accuracy. It's close to a good idea, but then you have the angle foot that gives you precious little contact surface due to their decision to offer the butterfly style foot. Support on only one side. Basically only useful in that scenario where you're for some reason using a jigsaw to cut an angle on a straight edge like in their video, which is not something I'd be using a jigsaw for anyway.

-LED light. Strange at this point that there are companies that would still choose not to integrate one of these? If I have my stuff right, even the Mafell P1CC doesn't have a light? It may seem trivial but with a tool that you need to really see the cut line to have accuracy (ain't no track saw), and movable dust shields tend to further obscure visibility, AND you don't want to have to get your face so close to a blade that spits material upwards (unless you use a downcut blade, but those have their own drawbacks), seems like and LED is a no brainer? Whether it strobes or not?

Haven't found the jigsaw that meets these requirements, or rather let's call them desirements. Id buy that saw if it exists. Is there a battery powered Mafell?

Secondly, do y'all have a favored cordless jigsaw that you have been happy with?

I hope that Festool's next jigsaw evolution can address the massive oversights in their current offerings, and ideally incorporate ALL of the above attributes. It would truly be a winner, and they could have a chance at some redemption and regain some respect from, well, some of us I'm sure who rightfully have our gripes.

I haven't ever used a Trion, but are they preferable over the Carvex?

I write this in part simply to see if there's one I'm missing somewhere?

And partially to ask any and all of you: What would you like to see in a jigsaw that isn't seeming to be offered?

 

[peter halle]

There isn't a cordless Mafell according another thread.  After reading your list it appears that you can't get everything you want in a jigsaw - from Festool or any brand.  But until you find what you want, I found that operating the trigger on the Carvex barrel grip with your pointer finger (longer than the thumb I constantly tried to use) works.  Yes, it takes some time to get used to.

Peter

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi,

For what its worth, I really like my cordless Carvex.

Not counting my first two jigsaws, I had a Bosch GST 135 CE before the cordless Carvex. When I initially and a lot earlier thought of getting a replacement for the GST 135, I looked at the Bosch GST 150 and was turned off because that really was a monster size wise. And I had exactly the same trouble you describe, in regard to your Carvex, reaching for the on/off switch.

So I didn't get the GST 150. (The 160 was not available back then)

I simply kept the GST 135. Then I got an offer to buy a cordless Carvex.

Initially I had trouble getting the saw blades in, but I found out why (didn't open the saw blade guides far enough) and I'm absolutely OK with that doesn't give me any trouble now. Making my first cuts with the Carvex I had to adjust to it as it doesn't have the "blower" my GST 135 had. But I try to use my vac as much as I can, so I can't complain about visibility of blade and cutting line. I don't like/use the splinter guard/ or cover.

I sold my GST 135 CE shortly after and I do not regret it.

I did inquire here last year about the accessory kit and decided to buy it. It's sitting in my basement workshop but I haven't used it so far. My intention here was simply to keep me on par with the GST 135, but so far there was no need for any of the additional functionalities that the basic Carvex doesn't offer. My usage is the same that it was before: I use it mostly for quick cuts and "oddly" shaped cut outs. I'm happy with it.

I've hear complaints about it's power. Don't know, last stuff I cut was massive oak boards (hardwood flooring, real wood - not some laminate type stuff) and I could easily cut through it at speed 3, and a heart shaped cut out with a very fine toothed blade for neat, curved cuts I did at speed 1. So sure those boards aren't super thick, but so far nothing I have thrown at it would make me think the cordless Carvex is underpowered.

Personally I can say that the cordless Carvex is the perfect jigsaw for me and what I do.

I doubt you will currently find a jigsaw that meets all of your demands. But maybe Festool or another manufacturer takes on the challenge.

--

What I actually could see/fantasize about for barrel grip type jigsaws is some sort of interchangeable handle inlays to either "puff" the barrel up or trim it down.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Kev]

Are we talking about the Unicorn here? [wink] [big grin]

I've never liked Mafell as a company, but I do think their tools are very good. If they released a cordless version of their jigsaw that had similar power to the mains unit I'd buy one due to it's formidable reputation.

I have cordless and corded CARVEX jigsaws and a Trion (as well as a Hitachi). The CARVEX isn't perfect as I do feel the blade guide adjustment is it's weakness.

 

[DB10]

Are we talking about the Unicorn here? [wink] [big grin]

I've never liked Mafell as a company, but I do think their tools are very good. If they released a cordless version of their jigsaw that had similar power to the mains unit I'd buy one due to it's formidable reputation.

I have cordless and corded CARVEX jigsaws and a Trion (as well as a Hitachi). The CARVEX isn't perfect as I do feel the blade guide adjustment is it's weakness.

You are on the same lines of thinking as me, but if Maffel did make a cordless jigsaw, apart from the high cost there would also be two drawbacks, it would mean having to import one probably from the UK, so no warranty so to speak, and it would also mean another 18v platform that I would have no other power tools to share it with.

 

[Kev]

Are we talking about the Unicorn here? [wink] [big grin]

I've never liked Mafell as a company, but I do think their tools are very good. If they released a cordless version of their jigsaw that had similar power to the mains unit I'd buy one due to it's formidable reputation.

I have cordless and corded CARVEX jigsaws and a Trion (as well as a Hitachi). The CARVEX isn't perfect as I do feel the blade guide adjustment is it's weakness.

You are on the same lines of thinking as me, but if Maffel did make a cordless jigsaw, apart from the high cost there would also be two drawbacks, it would mean having to import one probably from the UK, so no warranty so to speak, and it would also mean another 18v platform that I would have no other power tools to share it with.

If Mafell chose the Metabo battery platform I'd celebrate! But we all know I'm dreaming [crying]

In all honesty I haven't found a situation where a CARVEX has left me wanting, but ensuring I'm using the correct blade, adjusting the guide, testing the cut, etc is just something I do and would probably go through the same kind of process regardless of the brand tool I was using.

 

[Cheese]

...adjusting the guide...

There is no guide to adjust on a P1 cc...it just cuts at a 90 degree angle  [popcorn]

 

[Kev]

...adjusting the guide...

There is no guide to adjust on a P1 cc...it just cuts at a 90 degree angle  [popcorn]

Yes, I do know this ... and I did say "same kind of process regardless of the brand tool". That doesn't infer I would spend the rest of my life trying to adjust a not existent blade guide if the tool in question happened to be a Mafell jigsaw.

I am a person that would rather pay attention to detail instead of sitting on my backside eating popcorn [big grin]

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Are we talking about the Unicorn here? [wink] [big grin]

I've never liked Mafell as a company, but I do think their tools are very good. If they released a cordless version of their jigsaw that had similar power to the mains unit I'd buy one due to it's formidable reputation.

I have cordless and corded CARVEX jigsaws and a Trion (as well as a Hitachi). The CARVEX isn't perfect as I do feel the blade guide adjustment is it's weakness.

You are on the same lines of thinking as me, but if Maffel did make a cordless jigsaw, apart from the high cost there would also be two drawbacks, it would mean having to import one probably from the UK, so no warranty so to speak, and it would also mean another 18v platform that I would have no other power tools to share it with.

Mafell doesn't manufacture a cordless jigsaw model, however, they've been manufacturing a wider number of tool models in cordless versions, so maybe they will make a cordless version of their current jigsaw.

One problem with Mafell cordless tools, is that Mafell uses other companies cordless systems, and they've used multiple companies systems over the years. At one point the Mafell cordless tools, or at least the drills, used the Milwaukee/AEG 3000 NiCd/NiMH battery system, and one of the saws may have as well. After that system was dropped by Milwaukee/AEG Mafell used a different system for a cordless circular saw, maybe Bosch. Currently Mafell is using the Metabo lithium battery system fir their cordless drills, which are made by Metabo but with some differences for Mafell. There may have been one or more other battery systems used as well. I think I saw a comment on the Mafell forum that there were at least 4 different battery systems used by Mafell, and I'm not sure how far that goes back.

The other problem with battery systems is, unless you're only using a small number of standard tools in cordless models, you inevitably will have to purchase multiple cordless brands for some types of tools, either because the current dystem you use doesn't offer the type of tool you need, or because the cordless version of the tool is manufactured using a different design, instead of being a cordless version of a cordless tool. Also some manufacturers really don't manufacture certain types of tools well.

Cordless jigsaws also have the problem that certain manufacturers use completely different designs and engineering for cordless models compared to their corded models. Milwaukee for instance has two different cordless jigsaws, in two different voltages, sold in the USA, that  are completely different designs with completely different mechanisms, and build quality to both each other and their corded model. Milwaukee also manufactures a separate cordless jigsaw for the European market, that is completely different from the jigsaw models sold in the USA. The European jigsaw is actually based on the German made jigsaw Milwaukee used to sell in the USA, but with a cordless motor used instead of the corded motor. Milwaukee doesn't sell this in the USA, or the corded version, although I believe both are/were well regarded.  Bosch does similar things with their jigsaws, having multiple jigsaw models that use different mechanisms, and using different mechanism designs for their cordless and corded models, although I believe they mostly sell the same tools in the USA and Europe, but with a different model numbering sustem.

Makita and Festool on the other hand actually seem to base their cordless jigsaws off their corded models, but with slight modification for the differences between the cordless and corded motors. The makita is made for the USA in a D-handle grip, and if you don't like the Festool Carvex than maybe this will be closer to what you're looking for, although it diesn't check all your boxes. I believe it's also generally well thought of.

 

[Cheese]

Yes, I do know this ... and I did say "same kind of process regardless of the brand tool". That doesn't infer I would spend the rest of my life trying to adjust a not existent blade guide if the tool in question happened to be a Mafell jigsaw.

I am a person that would rather pay attention to detail instead of sitting on my backside eating popcorn

I don’t eat popcorn...sticks in my teeth.

I’ve paid attention to detail my entire life...that’s who and what I am. That’s what I’m all about.  [popcorn]

 

[Kev]

Yes, I do know this ... and I did say "same kind of process regardless of the brand tool". That doesn't infer I would spend the rest of my life trying to adjust a not existent blade guide if the tool in question happened to be a Mafell jigsaw.

I am a person that would rather pay attention to detail instead of sitting on my backside eating popcorn

I don’t eat popcorn...sticks in my teeth.

I’ve paid attention to detail my entire life...that’s who and what I am. That’s what I’m all about.  [popcorn]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]

[big grin] [big grin]

I stuffed myself with "healthy popcorn" last night and I felt like shaving my teeth [embarassed]

... I was watching the new Star Trek, I think I could have used the razor from shaving my teeth to cut my wrists! Hope it gets better!

 

[ScotF]

I suppose nothing is perfect, but in my opinion the P1CC gets about as close to perfect as one can ask of a jigsaw. I do not think a light or absence of one is that big of a deal. All other things on the P1CC work just like they are supposed to and DC on the saw is exceptional for a jigsaw to boot. No cordless option, though, as of now.

 

[BigfootBuilder]

For what its worth, I really like my cordless Carvex...

...Personally I can say that the cordless Carvex is the perfect jigsaw for me and what I do.

I doubt you will currently find a jigsaw that meets all of your demands. But maybe Festool or another manufacturer takes on the challenge.

I think it's great that the Carvex does seem to work for some people, and I'm glad you've found it to work for you. It's not my experience, but we're all fully entitled to our own. I don't see any saws that meet the requirements that I've listed, but in today's fast evolving tool lineups it will hopefully not be too long until one of the manufacturers nails it?

[member=13058]Kev[/member] Maybe I am talking about the unicorn? It does seem that in today's day and age one could Jurassic Park one into existence? Splice some Bosch, Festool, and Mafell genes together with some amber-preserved prehistoric mosquito DNA and produce the one that no other could compete with? Part of me wants to be a product designer, but the part of me that doesn't want to spend that much time on a computer in an office objects to the idea...

Makita and Festool on the other hand actually seem to base their cordless jigsaws off their corded models, but with slight modification for the differences between the cordless and corded motors. The makita is made for the USA in a D-handle grip, and if you don't like the Festool Carvex than maybe this will be closer to what you're looking for, although it diesn't check all your boxes. I believe it's also generally well thought of.

The brushed Makita is something that I would possibly consider pulling the trigger on, it does leave a couple of features lacking that would hold me back. Hex key angle changes, and lack of blower mechanism. Other than that, and while not having actually used the saw to get a sense of accuracy, it does get good reviews generally. Plus I already have like 6 batteries.

The Bosch JSH180B would be another option. It also needs a hex key for angle changes, but it does have a dust blower, and a light, etc. My main holdback would be needing to invest in yet another battery platform. I'm already in Makita, Festool, DeWalt, Paslode, and as much as adding another would be just more expense and another thing to have to set up, maybe it's worth it for the benefit of a seemingly good saw?

 

[aloysius]

...does not seem to exist.

I've just looked through seemingly every brand, mostly focused on the cordless models. The way that I see things, which is not necessarily the way that anyone else may see things, these are the attributes that I would want rolled into one, and I'd pay for it too. In order of rough hierarchy:

-Cordless. A no brainer nowadays I think. Dragging a cord behind a jigsaw will often result in something catching at some point, and messing up your cut. It's the way so many things are going. There are even cordless table saws now so this one certainly isn't asking much.

-Variable speed trigger. Speaking to the d-handles. Surprisingly, not a feature across the jigsaw board. (I could add in here the Carvex's frail and uncomfortable [to me utterly unusable] d-handle design).

-Reachable on/off button. This is a direct shot at the Carvex barrel grip. I still have mine (until I can find something better) and cannot for the life of me figure out a comfortable way to access the on/off buttons, ESPECIALLY when I need to stop a cut for accuracy in the middle of a piece.

-Toolless blade change. Surprisingly, there are still some manufacturers (with a kind of teal blue tint) who require a hex key to change the blade. And I don't think that relying on a complicated set of circuits to ineffectively bring the blade up to the top after every cut is acceptable.

-Toolless angle adjustment. Again still not a standard (kind of a darker blue green). The only thing I want to need a hex key for with a jigsaw is to take the thing apart if need be to replace a trigger or something, and even then we should be talking torx.

-Dust blower. The only thing more cumbersome than dragging a cord is dragging a 27mm ribbed hose behind a jigsaw. Blowing > sucking in this application IMHO.

-Positive stops for angles. I mean real, tactile, no mistaking it and man you can just FEEL it positive stops. No guessing. No ambiguity. And precision. I get that Festool has chosen to offer separate feet for the reason of accuracy. It's close to a good idea, but then you have the angle foot that gives you precious little contact surface due to their decision to offer the butterfly style foot. Support on only one side. Basically only useful in that scenario where you're for some reason using a jigsaw to cut an angle on a straight edge like in their video, which is not something I'd be using a jigsaw for anyway.

-LED light. Strange at this point that there are companies that would still choose not to integrate one of these? If I have my stuff right, even the Mafell P1CC doesn't have a light? It may seem trivial but with a tool that you need to really see the cut line to have accuracy (ain't no track saw), and movable dust shields tend to further obscure visibility, AND you don't want to have to get your face so close to a blade that spits material upwards (unless you use a downcut blade, but those have their own drawbacks), seems like and LED is a no brainer? Whether it strobes or not?

Haven't found the jigsaw that meets these requirements, or rather let's call them desirements. Id buy that saw if it exists. Is there a battery powered Mafell?

Secondly, do y'all have a favored cordless jigsaw that you have been happy with?

I hope that Festool's next jigsaw evolution can address the massive oversights in their current offerings, and ideally incorporate ALL of the above attributes. It would truly be a winner, and they could have a chance at some redemption and regain some respect from, well, some of us I'm sure who rightfully have our gripes.

I haven't ever used a Trion, but are they preferable over the Carvex?

I write this in part simply to see if there's one I'm missing somewhere?

And partially to ask any and all of you: What would you like to see in a jigsaw that isn't seeming to be offered?

Going on your Wishlist there's a couple of saws that are a close fit.

In cordless, maybe Metabo's STA140 LTX, which has motion activated headlights, switchable blower, auto blade ejection, auto accelerator, toolless tilt, the slimmest body grip on the market & the biggest capacity & most power of any cordless rival?  Granted, it's no Mafell, but it covers most bases admirably.  As a bonus it in common with Mafell, Collomix et. al. it also uses the world's largest, most versatile and most powerful battery system.

The corded Metabo equivalents (in both bow handle& bodygrip) are similarly equipped, with a beautiful trigger based throttle control with preset maxima in the former instance.  The will also fit Festo/ol's guderails too.  I personally only ever trust Metabo & Bosch saws as sufficiently robust to cut steel plate.

However, current best fit according to your stated desires in corded saws must go to the Bosch bow-handled GST 160 BCE which has Mafell rivalling power (800w), the biggest capacity (160mm) & all the bells & whistles of the Metabo, including headlights, blower, toolless tilting, one hand blade ejection/replacement, the finest trigger control in the business & probably the smoothest, most vibration free operation too.

Mafell's P1 CC is still all but universally regarded as being the best in class, however.  What it is perceived to lack in features or gimmickry is more than compensated for in outright performance, which professional users tend to value more highly.  It's truly outstanding features are twofold:  it's unique guideless blade control system that allows supreme accuracy in both forwards & reverse cutting, and those marvellous, unique, hideously expensive triangular section handmade Cunex blades, that are unrivalled for both linear cutting accuracy and perpendicularity.

 

[Holmz]

I broke down and got a BlackDiamond headlamp, and I am usually using it in captivity (the shop/garage).
As mentioned, the Mafell is not Cordless, and I am not sure waiting is a wise strategy... But they have released a lot of new gear as cordless.

I have not needed to variable speed mid cut, and the power switch is workable for me.
So there is the cordless and potentially the speed and power keeping it from the nirvana state.

How one weights the features can result in different measures of goodness.
(Price is not its competitive point.)

if one uses a jigsaw a lot in captivity (the shop) and in the wild, then they may be better off with a p1cc and some Bosch as a cordless to get more boxes ticked with respect to their complete work day...

 

[Cheese]

-Cordless. Metabo, Bosch, Milwaukee, Fetool take your pick

-Variable speed trigger. Milwaukee produced this feature maybe 10-12 years ago. It was a rotary switch on the trigger. It never really took off though.

-Reachable on/off button. P1 cc If your right handed it falls directly under your thumb, really nice and easy to use. Not so nice though if you're a south paw.

-Toolless blade change. P1 cc After you move (open) the blade release lever, the blade is inserted with a click or ejected when slight (1-2 oz) pressure is applied sideways to the blade. Again, the best solution I've experienced.

-Toolless angle adjustment. P1 cc Just move a lever on the base

-Dust blower. P1 cc It has an internal fan and blows air from one side of the base across the cut area and if you are using dust collection, the dust collection is done on the opposite side of the base. It literally blows dust/debris into the collection area. Another benefit of the blower is it keeps the blade cool and because there is no blade guide the blade just never gets hot.

-Positive stops for angles. P1 cc Positive stops at 0º, 22.5º & 45º.

-LED light. Festool, Metabo probably others...

There are a bunch of other features that the P1 cc has that are nonexistent on other jigsaws, but I was just following your want list. [big grin]

 

[bwehman]

All the critique of the Carvex sounds merited, but are most of them from owners of the barrel grip model? I have the D handle model and LOVEEEE it. Other than being corded (by choice, just my preference for the way I use this tool) it pretty much hits all your points, OP, yeah?

 

[BigfootBuilder]

All the critique of the Carvex sounds merited, but are most of them from owners of the barrel grip model? I have the D handle model and LOVEEEE it. Other than being corded (by choice, just my preference for the way I use this tool) it pretty much hits all your points, OP, yeah?

Rather than go on and on, I'll point you towards my thread from earlier this year:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/carvex-psb-420-ebq-reviewthoughts-(not-impressed)/

I wanted to love it. I fell into the hype, and ended up unable to justify its faults for its high cost. After having now the Festool barrel grip cordless one I think I can safely say that I prefer D-handle. Until Mafell cordlesses theirs, or Festool/Makita/Bosch etc come out with something better I'll probably be going to the makita for now.

Though I did look at the Metabo a little just online that [member=9481]aloysius[/member] suggested, and that thing piqued my interest...

 

[Cheese]

I own the D handle Trion and Carvex. I think they’re both great jigsaws. They perform well,  however, my only issue with them, is they do not produce a cut line that is 90 degrees to the surface. If the 90 degree cut line is important, I’d look elsewhere, if not, the LED lighting on the Carvex is great while the feeling of robustness of the Trion cannot be denied. Great jig saws...just not the best, if that’s what you’re after.

 

[Holmz]

-Cordless. Metabo, Bosch, Milwaukee, Fetool take your pick

-Variable speed trigger. Milwaukee produced this feature maybe 10-12 years ago. It was a rotary switch on the trigger. It never really took off though.

-Reachable on/off button. P1 cc If your right handed it falls directly under your thumb, really nice and easy to use. Not so nice though if you're a south paw.

-Toolless blade change. P1 cc After you move (open) the blade release lever, the blade is inserted with a click or ejected when slight (1-2 oz) pressure is applied sideways to the blade. Again, the best solution I've experienced.

-Toolless angle adjustment. P1 cc Just move a lever on the base

-Dust blower. P1 cc It has an internal fan and blows air from one side of the base across the cut area and if you are using dust collection, the dust collection is done on the opposite side of the base. It literally blows dust/debris into the collection area. Another benefit of the blower is it keeps the blade cool and because there is no blade guide the blade just never gets hot.

-Positive stops for angles. P1 cc Positive stops at 0º, 22.5º & 45º.

-LED light. Festool, Metabo probably others...

There are a bunch of other features that the P1 cc has that are nonexistent on other jigsaws, but I was just following your want list. [big grin]

So the perfection score is 5 out of 8.

Add in my BlackDiamond headlamp, and it moves to 6 out of 8  8)
75% is not too bad in the real world.