Timstool plans never got but have paid for!!

[Jread310th]

Hey paid for the MFTC plans and have not recovered them?? Been a couple weeks can someone help me retrieve my plans I paid for?? The Tim MFTC plans thank you so excited to build these for me and my work crew!! Going to be great team Christmas present!!

 

[Jread310th]

Photo help/proof

 

[AlexThePalex]

Sorry you didn't get the what you paid for, but this forum is not the Timtool service desk.

I see the words Visa and PayPal on your proof, talk to them.

 

[MikeGE]

Sorry you didn't get the what you paid for, but this forum is not the Timtool service desk.

I see the words Visa and PayPal on your proof, talk to them.

Interesting.  You didn't seem to have the same response when someone complained about another retailer.  Based on other posts on FOG, Tim takes the money, but does not follow through with the plans or reply to customer questions.

What I don't understand is that businesses don't take email seriously.

It's the new thing, it is 2021 now. Text communication is just as relevant as verbal communication.

Especially when you have taken somebody's order. You darn well respond to their inquiries.

While Timtool is not a Festool distributor, he is a recognized Retailer on FOG who appears to have abandoned his business and customers, yet his website is still active and the links on FOG to his website are still active.  If I bought one of his plans featured on FOG, and failed to receive the product or any replies from him, I would certainly complain here, if nothing more to send a warning to anyone else.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't see any inconsistency here considering my opinion. Nice to see you remembered them. Yes, this is very bad form on Timtools' part. But this forum is still not the Timtool service centre.

I wouldn't know how to contact Timtool. Seems like he fell of the face of the earth. He's not an active and official company like the one we talked about in that other post. All an internet search brings up are posts from him in the past.

He should definitely close his webshop for these plans if he no longer wants to sell them. So why did he just forget about them? Nobody knows. Maybe he's dead. Nobody here knows.

OP asked for a solution, I told him to contact Visa or PayPal, they tend to side with the customer and refund the money if no product is delivered.

What's your solution? Complain about me? Sure, that'll work. I agree any Timtool links here on FOG should better be removed, but OP won't get his plans or money that way.

 

[Bob D.]

The 'Contact Us' page of the Benchworks website (Tim's site) list several methods of contacting him. Will any of them work I don't know but worth a try if you haven't done so already. At the least they are more public than multiple posts on the FOG with it limited audience. A failure to respond on Tims' part to a question on Twitter or FB will certainly garner more attention than it will here, and maybe nudge him into responding.

timothy@benchworks.be
https://benchworks.be/en/contact/

 

[MikeGE]

I searched for other threads where members have complained about issues with sponsored retailers, and the first thread I found included your reply...just a coincidence. You have the final word on how you view your opinion.

I see the FOG as an integral player in this since it enabled Timtools with the retail banner and continues to provide a platform for his business.  I understand life priorities change and wish the best for Tim, but if he is not monitoring his online plans business, then perhaps FOG should sever the ties and move on before another unsuspecting person tries to buy his plans based on links here. 

I couldn't care less if Tim shuts down his website, as there are other sources available that point to it, such as his YouTube videos.  However, some of the recent comments on his MFTC video appear to be from customers who have not received what they paid for.

 

[ChuckM]

"I see the FOG as an integral player in this since it enabled Timtools with the retail banner and continues to provide a platform for his business."

Agreed.

The fact that Timstools has been bringing FOG's reputation into disrepute is a good enough reason to remove his sales/marketing posts or website links that can be found in the forum. Could that be done efficiently without a moderator going through each of the related posts? I don't know. Might be it's not easy to do so, and why nothing is done about it.

If I found something on this forum with still active, direct sales link and did not get it after I paid for it, I blamed the seller. But I'd find the forum management less than diligent if it knew about the shady business all along, but chose to do nothing about the trap. Newbies may not trust a new seller that they have never done business with, but the seller's presence in FOG may give them the confidence to place their orders.

This also reminds me of some now defunct woodworking magazines that continued to accept subscriptions long after the owners decided internally to fold their periodicals. They included at least two titles that kept their online subscription links active even after their bankruptcy proceedings had begun.

 

[sancho57]

This has nothing to do with FOGs reputation.

FOG is a message board nothing more nothing less.

People come here and ax for advice. Lots of bad and good advice given here.

Is FOG responsible for the bad advice?

No its a open forum/ message board it doesnt have a fact check.

FOG is not a sales platform either . Its not Crags list , Its not FB marketplace, Etsy etc .

It does allow a avenue for people to sell stuff.

People are still selling all sorts of junk here.

Is the FOG responsible for them? No Does the FOG get a cut?

No

Anyone can sell what ever invention they come up with here.

But FOG isn't responsible for the seller,

Tim made some cool stuff showed it here and lots of people here started axing for plans.

So

Tim came up with a way for people to buy his plans.

Not as a business , Tim is a farmer, but to provide people who are interested a copy of his plans.

There are a lot of scammers here (which Tim isnt one) .

Look at the warnings in the classified section.

FYI

Tim is out of woodworking and has been for quite a while.

He has been concentrating on working his farm.

Should of Tim deleted his post since hes no longer woodworking , yea I think so.

Is it a priority for him to delete the post? Im sure running a farm and raising a family he has a lot more important things on his mind than deleting a years old post for some plans.

I have no personal interest in any of this,

But have been around long enough to know when and why Tim started selling plans.

IMO

if yer a good enough woodworker ya dont need Tims plans, you can watch his video and make yer own to your own dimensions and cut list....

I dont buy plans, Ill watch a video get some ideas and build my own stuff to fit my needs

Lots of people did w/o Tims plans before he started selling them.

to the OP have you checked this out?
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/mftc-portable-workshop/510/

 

[huntdupl]

Just FYI, I'm pretty sure Timothy Wilmots* has retired from the industry. For personal reasons, I believe he is focused on running his family farm. Unless I'm confused with someone else, this could be part of the delayed response. Either way, I'm sure he'll warrant your purchase.

Its a shame, he's incredibly talented and brought a lot to the table. I've purchased some of his workshop plans and still regularly watch his videos on Youtube.

 

[mino]

With Jobsworth here.

Whenever I purchase plans, I do it foremost to support the designer. And only secondly for the actual plans value.

Ref. Tim, he added incredible value to the community so treating him with respect should be a given. As such, deleting posts which do not break forum rules is IMO NOT OK.

Adding a disclaimer that the author is no longer active on the forum /in red if need be/ is absolutely justifiable. So is the removal of the "dealer" notation given Tim no longer is one (after an email query).

But please DO NOT remove links to his site - he is still hosting his old assets and they are valuable as they are. Even without ability to buy the plans. And who knows, he may come back to this life in a decade or two when/if he retires from farming work.

 

[squall_line]

I don't have a dog in this race, but considering so many of the complaints posted on here about not receiving the plans are from brand new, first-time posters, I would venture to guess that those people found the link to the plans first, attempted to purchase, and then came here second after not receiving the plans.

If someone came to the FOG first looking for a link to the plans, they would have found the numerous discussions about how Tim is out of woodworking and isn't selling the plans any longer.

For that matter, getting to Tim's page brings up a ton of links and stories and whatnot to his posts talking about how he's done with woodworking.

Conflating this $10 complaint to the folding and bankruptcy proceedings of a nationwide print magazine company is also a bit short-sighted, and claiming that "things like this will bring Festool to its demise through its tarnished reputation on a user forum" is also a bit over the top.

If FOG cleans up Tim's old posts, do they need to then go through and clean up all of Bob Marino's old posts since he sold his business to Beaver Tools?

 

[MikeGE]

If someone came to the FOG first looking for a link to the plans, they would have found the numerous discussions about how Tim is out of woodworking and isn't selling the plans any longer.

I doubt that would be the case given the age of the threads and the number of posts in each thread.  The complaints in the 18-page MFTC thread don't start until the last page, long after Tim stopped visiting.  When I was searching for a MFT project, I found AtomicRyan's BF/MFT thread.  I didn't read every post in the 5-page thread before I went to his website.  As soon as I found his post with the URL to his website, I went there.  It wasn't until much later that I came back and read the rest of the posts on his FOG thread, but by then I had already watched his four YouTube videos and started on my design.

Conflating this $10 complaint to the folding and bankruptcy proceedings of a nationwide print magazine company is also a bit short-sighted, and claiming that "things like this will bring Festool to its demise through its tarnished reputation on a user forum" is also a bit over the top.

ChuckM didn't compare this to the magazine folding, he said it reminded him of it.  Big difference.  Who said this would bring Festool to its demise?  Since you included the phrase in quotes, I assume you are quoting someone else.

If FOG cleans up Tim's old posts, do they need to then go through and clean up all of Bob Marino's old posts since he sold his business to Beaver Tools?

Bob Marino is not currently identified as a Retailer on FOG.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
If FOG cleans up Tim's old posts, do they need to then go through and clean up all of Bob Marino's old posts since he sold his business to Beaver Tools?

Apples & oranges here.

Did Bob or Beaver Tools take money and refuse to deliver? If so, I'd vote for their removal, too.

Removal is an extreme action, but it's better than nothing is done about the ongoing h(m)oney trap. I'd support Mino's suggestion for some kind of warning...but again, the moderators may not have time to do that.

 

[Frank-Jan]

I just read the thread linked in jobsworth post. Have you checked your spam/junkmail folder?

 

[mino]

EDIT: this post was originally quoting ChuckM but was not really a reply to his post per se. I have now removed the quote.

TLDR: Slow down folks!

WHERE IS there ANY PROOF or even and allegation whatsoever that ANYONE actively REFUSED/DID ANYTHING ?!

Nowhere. There is none and likely never will be one.
Lets stop being the judge and executioner while having ZERO idea on what is the issue.

------------------
All the complains are about "no communication" on Tim part. An absolutely expected observation if some puts a former business like this into a back-burner.

If you did not notice, it is spring in Europe now. The main seeding season. People in agriculture - even not starting ones - work 16 hour days during this part of the year as their yearly income heavily depends on it. I would absolutely expect Tim to have a couple thousand emails big backlog which he likely does not have any time available to attend until later in the year.

Yeah, he should probably stop selling the plans, or better, pass the buck to folks like TSO to do it on his behalf. But that is about it. There is so far ZERO evidence of any malice taking place.

To people should use the thing on their necks a bit more. IT DOES MAKE NO SENSE to refuse to sell plans as that is zero accrued cost except the email being sent. No materials, etc. It is more expensive to handle a refund than just provide the plans.

 

[AlexThePalex]

WHERE IS there ANY PROOF or even and allegation whatsoever that ANYONE actively REFUSED/DID ANYTHING ?!

Nowhere. There is none and likely never will be one.
Lets stop being the judge and executioner while having ZERO idea on what is the issue.

Uhm you do know how letters work, right? A,b,c,d etc.

It's in the first post of this thread. Duh.

And this is not the first post of this kind we've read here. There have been a few.

 

[mino]

WHERE IS there ANY PROOF or even and allegation whatsoever that ANYONE actively REFUSED/DID ANYTHING ?!

Nowhere. There is none and likely never will be one.
Lets stop being the judge and executioner while having ZERO idea on what is the issue.

Uhm you do know how letters work, right? A,b,c,d etc.

It's in the first post of this thread. Duh.

And this is not the first post of this kind we've read here. There have been a few.

The title post complains paying and not receiving. I.e. being ignored or observing an (unexpectedly) slow order processing time.

It is not even alleged that there was any action by Tim indicating his awareness.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
TLDR: Slow down folks!

WHERE IS there ANY PROOF or even and allegation whatsoever that ANYONE actively REFUSED/DID ANYTHING ?!

CONTEXT!!!

I was referring to Beaver Tools which is still in existence: if it had refused to deliver, its sales link should be removed, too.

I don't know if Timtools' business is still in existence, and whether he has refused to do anything or not; I only know from the posts exchanged here that he is nowhere to be heard from (for whatever reason). Note all my posts above: I never mentioned anything about refusal on the part of Timtools. [blink]

 

[AlexThePalex]

The title post complains paying and not receiving. I.e. being ignored or observing an (unexpectedly) slow order processing time.

It is not even alleged that there was any action by Tim indicating his awareness.

Not sure what that means exactly, but it is a pretty big flaw to take people's money and not deliver.

If Tim wanted to move on, he should have closed his webstore.

Ha, this is not the Timtool service desk, but OP did quite stir up the hornet's nest. Why are you writing in caps, which is considered shouting on the net, over a guy you don't even know?