track saw clogging question

[keelwoodwork]

I have a Festool  TS75 plunge saw.  The first time I used it was cutting down an epoxy table.  The epoxy shavings were a huge mess and are clogged up inside the saw so that now the blade does not fully retract.  It's a new saw to me and I've looked at the owners guide but there is no description of how to open the blade guard to dislodge the debris.  i've raised and lowered the blade countless times and some gets dislodged.  I've reached up with a dental pick and scraped some out.  But there doesn't appear to be enough coming out to solve the issue.
Has anyone else experienced this and do you have any helpful suggestions? 

 

[rvieceli]

[member=80453]keelwoodwork[/member] there are 5 T15 torx screws on the plate that covers the blade. Remove them and you can remove the face plate. Clean replace the screws done.

The only part to pay attention is the dust outlet needs to go back the same way it was.

Ron

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[keelwoodwork]

[member=80453]keelwoodwork[/member] there are 5 T15 torx screws on the plate that covers the blade. Remove them and you can remove the face plate. Clean replace the screws done.

Thank you Ron.  It would be convenient if they would have provided that tool don't you think?

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[sancho57]

it happens sometimes.

 

[squall_line]

Thank you Ron.  It would be convenient if they would have provided that tool don't you think?

There are any number of different fasteners on this or any other power tool.  Festool provides the hex key to change the blade, it stores itself onboard the tool, the blade cover has an opening for the arbor nut, and there is a locking lever to fix the blade in place to change it.

Cleaning out a clog is probably considered a maintenance item; it should not happen with enough frequency that it would be necessary to include yet another tool with the saw.  To wit, there is no additional tool included to adjust toe-in or other maintenance items on this or really any other power tool.

To their credit, Festool limits the different types of fastener heads required to actually maintain their powered offerings, and their tools CAN be disassembled and repaired, rather than a bunch of snap fittings that may or may not be able to be disassembled safely.

Festool did, for a time, sell the "Toolie", which included flip-out tools for almost every fastener on their power tools.  It comes in handy for all sorts of maintenance items, but isn't absolutely necessary if someone already has a fair selection of hand tools.

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, it's nice if Festool includes a simple T15 Torex bit or tool. I was lucky to have a case of the special bits when I needed to remove the brushes on my Kapex. It'd be a PITA to spend half an hour or more to buy one. If IKEA can include the tools needed (in most cases) for assembly and disassembly, so can Festool for the Torex screws.

 

[rvieceli]

It’s never bad to have a reasonable set of bits other than flat and Phillips in your arsenal.

The most cost effective way to achieve this is usually to buy a set of one inch 1/4 inch hex drive insert bits. Here are couple of Wiha sets that Lowe’s is carrying:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Wiha-Wiha-...Impact-Bit-Set-with-1-4-in-Ratchet/5000289431
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Wiha-40-Piece-TerminatorBlue-Impact-Bit-Set/5013934583

You might want to add either a standard screwdriver bit holder or a t-handle bit holder. Lots of folks make them.

Ron

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yes, it's nice if Festool includes a simple T15 Torex bit or tool. I was lucky to have a case of the special bits when I needed to remove the brushes on my Kapex. It'd be a PITA to spend half an hour or more to buy one. If IKEA can include the tools needed (in most cases) for assembly and disassembly, so can Festool for the Torex screws.

On the other hand, it would be an added expense and there would be people who complain about that too.
It's kind of like the OF1010. They provide the wrench to change the bit, but no one says anything  about the screwdriver needed to change the guide bushings (or the fact that it takes 2 different ones)
The simple reducing plate uses flat-head screws, because centering is not an issue, but the guide bushings (copy rings) have a very slim cheese-head style screw, which takes a T-15.

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, it's nice if Festool includes a simple T15 Torex bit or tool. I was lucky to have a case of the special bits when I needed to remove the brushes on my Kapex. It'd be a PITA to spend half an hour or more to buy one. If IKEA can include the tools needed (in most cases) for assembly and disassembly, so can Festool for the Torex screws.

On the other hand, it would be an added expense and there would be people who complain about that too.Snip.

I beg to disagree that including a T15 bit would be a factor in cost:https://canada.newark.com/duratool/...AMVsy2tBh1x0Aq5EAQYByABEgJTkPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!8472!3!!!!x!!&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|57AC6694|pgrid||ptaid||&CMP=KNC-GCA-Shopping-PMAX-CATCH-ALL-NEW-S39&gross_price=true

For the prices Festool charges for its products and for the willingness of its customers to pay well above market prices for the same kind of product, absorbing the cost of a T15 Torex bit without raising the product prices  shouldn't be an issue.

Not every woodworker has all kinds of sockets, wrenches, bits, etc. in their shops. It isn't too much to expect a customer-oriented business to include a little under $5 (Cdn) tool with its $2,200 (Cdn) Kapex, is it?

 

[squall_line]

Yes, it's nice if Festool includes a simple T15 Torex bit or tool. I was lucky to have a case of the special bits when I needed to remove the brushes on my Kapex. It'd be a PITA to spend half an hour or more to buy one. If IKEA can include the tools needed (in most cases) for assembly and disassembly, so can Festool for the Torex screws.

On the other hand, it would be an added expense and there would be people who complain about that too.Snip.

I beg to disagree that including a T15 bit would be a factor in cost:https://canada.newark.com/duratool/...AMVsy2tBh1x0Aq5EAQYByABEgJTkPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!8472!3!!!!x!!&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|57AC6694|pgrid||ptaid||&CMP=KNC-GCA-Shopping-PMAX-CATCH-ALL-NEW-S39&gross_price=true

For the prices Festool charges for its products and for the willingness of its customers to pay well above market prices for the same kind of product, absorbing the cost of a T15 Torex bit without raising the product prices  shouldn't be an issue.

Not every woodworker has all kinds of sockets, wrenches, bits, etc. in their shops. It isn't too much to expect a customer-oriented business to include a little under $5 (Cdn) tool with its $2,200 (Cdn) Kapex, is it?

Well, this is about the TS75, not the Kapex, but...

Where does it end, though?  Do they include a driver for every fastener type on the tool?  Include a Toolie with every tool?

Sedge mentions it in most of his videos, but most anything that has an Allen head on it uses a 5mm, and they already include a 5 mm key with at least half of their tools, which is a pretty solid start all things considered.

 

[ChuckM]

Obviously, the Kapex is just an example. The TS75 or TS55 or TS60 would make no difference in the discussion of a bit that costs $1 or $2. IKEA doesn't include its hex key for just the higher price products.

Where does it end? It shouldn't end where the benefit outweighs the cost, and the T15 Torex screws are not commonly used in many hobby shops. Well, at least the OP doesn't use them.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yes, it's nice if Festool includes a simple T15 Torex bit or tool. I was lucky to have a case of the special bits when I needed to remove the brushes on my Kapex. It'd be a PITA to spend half an hour or more to buy one. If IKEA can include the tools needed (in most cases) for assembly and disassembly, so can Festool for the Torex screws.

On the other hand, it would be an added expense and there would be people who complain about that too.Snip.

I beg to disagree that including a T15 bit would be a factor in cost:https://canada.newark.com/duratool/...AMVsy2tBh1x0Aq5EAQYByABEgJTkPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!8472!3!!!!x!!&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|57AC6694|pgrid||ptaid||&CMP=KNC-GCA-Shopping-PMAX-CATCH-ALL-NEW-S39&gross_price=true

For the prices Festool charges for its products and for the willingness of its customers to pay well above market prices for the same kind of product, absorbing the cost of a T15 Torex bit without raising the product prices  shouldn't be an issue.

Not every woodworker has all kinds of sockets, wrenches, bits, etc. in their shops. It isn't too much to expect a customer-oriented business to include a little under $5 (Cdn) tool with its $2,200 (Cdn) Kapex, is it?

Well, it would definitely cost "something". I'm not saying it's a huge thing, but knowing Festool, they would redesign the insert tray to store it.....adding to the cost  [big grin]

"Not every woodworker has......"  true.  Every woodworker who invests in Festool? I would say, much more likely.

Including a Toolie with every tool would result in guys like me having a drawer full of them.....kind of like Plug-it cables.

 

[ChuckM]

It suffices to say that you and squall_line do not have the same line of thinking as the OP and I.

As for accumulating the Plug-in cables, while I do use only one of them, I keep the rest in the systainers safely as they are indispensable when I sell the machines one day.

 

[mino]

TLDR:
The saws are *not* meant to be opened this way regularly. Not including a tool is kinda logical then.

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One use to this will notice the screws are not normal circular ones but are of triangle-ish "security" vibration-proof variaty.

The down side of that is those "triangle" screws inevitably damage the thread - that is hat makes them vibration-proof. If one *expects* to be opening the saw regularly, whatever the reason, it is a good idea to swap them for standard metric ones.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Including a Toolie with every tool would result in guys like me having a drawer full of them.....kind of like Plug-it cables.

Completely agree, I've already got drawers full of tools and spare brushes that came with tools that i'll never use. I couldn't even guess how many hex keys I have built up over the last 40+ years, at some point it just becomes wasteful and really annoying to have so many.

Keep the cost down and only supply the tools absolutely required I reckon.

 

[ChuckM]

"TLDR:
The saws are *not* meant to be opened this way regularly. Not including a tool is kinda logical then."

Logical. Really?

Then Festool must have done something wrong with the Kapex...because I just found that a key did come with the Kapex. I had used it once when I calibrated the new saw as soon as it arrived 6 or 7 years ago (?) (the angle was slightly off). The key is tucked behind the saw. I had forgotten about it when looking for a Torex bit to remove the brushes.

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In a couple of forums, I came across discussions about how some fans would defend Festool at great length even when things might not sound quite right, and I brushed it off as very uncommon. I'm now having second thoughts about my earlier thinking.

 

[squall_line]

"TLDR:
The saws are *not* meant to be opened this way regularly. Not including a tool is kinda logical then."

Logical. Really?

In a couple of forums, I came across discussions about how some fans would defend Festool at great length even when things might not sound quite right, and I brushed it off as very uncommon. I'm now having second thoughts about my earlier thinking.

To me, "defending Festool at great length" would be something like defending the self-immolating Kapex armatures or the insistence to not bring certain tools to the North American market.  This is a business decision that I would defend for pretty much any manufacturer.  It makes sense to include tools that are used for regular maintenance and that may not be readily available in a shop, or to include a tool that is needed to actually adjust something that it meant to be adjusted regularly (see also: including a 3mm hex driver with the MFS system, but not a Phillips head screwdriver), or that is specialized and required for installation (ceiling fan kits that include stubby screwdrivers even though almost everyone has access to a regular length screwdriver), but I never expect Apple, Samsung, Dell, or anyone else to include a full set of bits and drivers to disassemble my monitor just because they included the hex key to tighten the mounting bracket.

As I said earlier, at least Festool has taken the time to minimize the number of different fasteners on their tools and to make them serviceable.  Serviceable doesn't automatically mean "user serviceable", however.

Note, also, I'm of the mind that BMW Motorrad's decision to stop including full service tool kits with its motorcycles is a pretty bad move on their part.  The reason I don't defend them while I do defend Festool is because BMW FORMERLY included a full-enough tool kit with their bikes that you could do pretty much anything you needed to do up to and including changing out a valve cover gasket with the tool kit that came me with the bike. Nowadays it seems like the first bolt you remove from a BMW motorcycle requires a scanning tool to reset the on board computer because they don't want you touching anything on there any more.

If BMW had never included a full tool kit in the past, I wouldn't lament the loss, but they set the precedent.

Also, even though I've owned more motorcycles than cars, even if every bike I bought came with a tool kit, it's going to stay with the bike and I'm not going to accumulate 40 tool kits like I would if every Festool I owned came with its own Toolie.

 

[ChuckM]

And about having too many Allen keys...

I keep as many as I can from all kinds of sources, including the ones that came with the garburators, because they can strip (like the white handle one).

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Instead of reaching for an Allen key kept centrally or somewhere, I attach the key with a magnet to the machine or tool:

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Veritas tools, where applicable, come with Allen keys, and I do the same using magnets.

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Too many Allen keys? No such thing in my shop.

 

[ChuckM]

To me, "defending Festool at great length" would be something like defending the self-immolating Kapex armaturesSnip.

You can call me a big defender of the Kapex motor, because as of today, no one can objectively say here or elsewhere how many Kapex EB motors have smoked and out of how many have been sold. 20 out of 1,500? out of 3980? or 89 out of 9,005?

I know for a fact that my local Festool dealer, among the largest in the country, had not dealt with any Kapex that smoked while under warranty. If something smoked outside the warranty, of course, they might not know, because the owner would deal direct with Festool. I only know of only 4 Kapex owners (including myself and the one at the showroom), and none has/had smoked.

Without all the facts, everybody is just guessing.

I use my Kapex EB in short, medium and long duration, cutting one or two pieces a time or a couple of hundred with intermittent stops. No smoke, just dust. So defending the Kapex EB motor based on my experience (fact) is what I'll do even if people (mistakenly) think I am a Festool fanboy.

Is the motor in the REB better? I believe so. Improvements are always welcome.

 

[mino]

"TLDR:
The saws are *not* meant to be opened this way regularly. Not including a tool is kinda logical then."

Logical. Really?

Umm. I do not believe the KAPEX sliding mittre saw falls under the TS 75 tracksaw moniker.

The screws used on the TS series saws for this cover are vibration-secure which means they can be removed/added a couple dozen time before the thread is worn out.

IF one needs/plans to be opening the saw regularly it is a good idea to replace them with metric ones or oil the threads *both of which will remove the anti-vibration property* but will make the threads last pretty much forever.

That is a consequence from the use of vibration-proof screws in a tool which under normal condition does not need to be opened for years. The use fo the vibration-proof screws is the case with other vendor tracksaws I had my hands on so is nothing special in the wider context.

Simply opening the cover on a TS is not a daily task. Hence carrying tools for it in the saw is not sensible. Festool includes tools only for "daily" tasks and I see nothing wrong with that.

OT:
Mentioning the absolute junk IKEA hex drivers is an anti-argument with me.
When I consider the time WASTED arguing with my SO that I do not want them mixed with quality hardened steel drivers in out home tool box those crappy drivers are a NET NEGATIVE for me and I consider them psychological game against the customer. They make the customers THINK they were provided "all the needed tools" only to the customers that struggle to assemble lots of the junk sold to them. Been there, done that, never ever will I do any assembly without a proper torque-set drill-driver.